Ascilab C8C plus BX8C or Dirac ART and distributed subs?

[markstein]

Gentlemen,

I am currently running Ascilab C8C plus 2x Neumann KH810 in mono configuration (one sub front left corner, second sub at the back wall). I am using minimum phase PEQ and LR24 x-over at 80Hz (RME ADI-2 Pro FS r and Fireface UFX with Room eq).

Listening distance is 3.8m in an untreated asymmetrical living room. Sofa is 0.8m from the back wall.

Which option should I try now to further improve, and why?

A) Add BX8C bass modules and get rid of KH810 (linear phase, better vertical directivity)

B) Switch to an AVR plus Dirac ART (MiniDSP Tide16?) and keep the 2x KH810. Maybe add a 3rd and 4th sub (different brand and smaller closed units instead of ported - Arendal 1723?)
(probably smoother frequency response across the room below 100Hz, maybe worse in the 100-300Hz range than with BX8C, but optimized bass decay)

Your thoughts are very welcome!

 

[Purité Audio]

Probably both C8C/BX8C and then the subs to smooth response.
Keith

 

[markstein]

Probably both C8C/BX8C and then the subs to smooth response.
Keith

A dealer's answer ;-)

That might be too much for my budget (BX8C plus Tide16). Would need to go for a Denon X3800 plus ART, however, do not like it's suboptimal performance and unbalanced outputs...

 

[Sokel]

A dealer's answer ;-)

That might be too much for my budget (BX8C plus Tide16). Would need to go for a Denon X3800 plus ART, however, do not like it's suboptimal performance and unbalanced outputs...

I would suggest the same and I'm not a dealer.
3.8 m is a long way for a small mid-bass.

 

[muslhead]

Gentlemen,

I am currently running Ascilab C8C plus 2x Neumann KH810 in mono configuration (one sub front left corner, second sub at the back wall). I am using minimum phase PEQ and LR24 x-over at 80Hz (RME ADI-2 Pro FS r and Fireface UFX with Room eq).

Listening distance is 3.8m in an untreated asymmetrical living room. Sofa is 0.8m from the back wall.

Which option should I try now to further improve, and why?

A) Add BX8C bass modules and get rid of KH810 (linear phase, better vertical directivity)

B) Switch to an AVR plus Dirac ART (MiniDSP Tide16?) and keep the 2x KH810. Maybe add a 3rd and 4th sub (different brand and smaller closed units instead of ported - Arendal 1723?)
(probably smoother frequency response across the room below 100Hz, maybe worse in the 100-300Hz range than with BX8C, but optimized bass decay)

Your thoughts are very welcome!

Thanks for asking this question, i was going to.
Inquiring minds want to know

 

[markstein]

I would suggest the same and I'm not a dealer.
3.8 m is a long way for a small mid-bass.

Yeah, mid bass performance is what I had in mind with upgrading the C8C. However, without sacrificing the bass response and introducing "boom".

 

[muslhead]

Probably both C8C/BX8C and then the subs to smooth response.
Keith

dont forget the new dac and cables jk

 

[muslhead]

Yeah, mid bass performance is what I had in mind with upgrading the C8C. However, without sacrificing the bass response and introducing "boom".

how big is your room?

 

[Sokel]

Yeah, mid bass performance is what I had in mind with upgrading the C8C. However, without sacrificing the bass response and introducing "boom".

Mid-bass is the anchor, have a little too little and everything is strident and small, specially at a distance.
It does not need to go complicated to add the subs, cross them somewhere at 60's even with a minidsp 2x4 to do their rumble and you're done.

 

[markstein]

Mid-bass is the anchor, have a little too little and everything is strident and small, specially at a distance.
It does not need to go complicated to add the subs, cross them somewhere at 60's even with a minidsp 2x4 to do their rumble and you're done.

I might indeed try that...

 

[markstein]

how big is your room?

It is an open floor plan. About 5m x 9m (open kitchen plus dining area plus living room area) with an opening to the hallway). Height 2.8m. Wooden floor on concrete, concrete ceiling, concrete outer walls, gypsum board inner walls. There are some bass room modes 20-30dB high, relatively high Q with need of massive EQ.

 

[AudioJester]

Hmm, this a tough one.

I use Dirac ART in my HT setup - it is like magic what it has done. Really increadible, I have 3 subs and 2 bass (50-300Hz) units in a 5.4.2 setup.

I also love the cardioid bass of the BX8C, the best sounding speaker I have ever heard in my 2-channel setup. I have a spare 18inch sub I could add, but have not felt the need. The BX8C adds headroom to the C8C, I feel even in the midrange. The "cleanest" bass I can get.

Do you have measurements of your C8C and C8C plus subs?

 

[markstein]

Do you have measurements of your C8C and C8C plus subs?

I have them, but not available right now. I am traveling with too much time to think about first-world luxury problems...

Edit: you may look here for a pure frequency response comparison without any phase and timing information:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?direct-messages/curves.39903/#convMessage-275541

Mid bass issues are obvious.

 

[levimax]

Add 2 BX8C and try without the other subs and do some DSP with REW measurements. You will get the advantages of point source (Easier and more precise integration, larger sweet spot, stereo bass, better time domain performance, less boxes on the floor) and since the speakers are Cardioid room issues should be mitigated. If you find your room and location really don't work well like this you can always add back in your other 2 subs but that is a compromise compared to 2 point sources.

 

[markstein]

Update: I ordered one of last three available pairs of black BX8C from Audiophonics. They should arrive around begin of July.

Thank you fo gently pushing me into this decision

 

[Purité Audio]

Having installed and listened to my BX8C’s I am fairly confident you will not be disappointed, they turn an already great speaker into magnificent.
Keith

 

[markstein]

Having installed and listened to my BX8C’s I am fairly confident you will not be disappointed, they turn an already great speaker into magnificent.
Keith

Okay, I'll keep my fingers crossed.

To be honest, I do not like the look of the exposed silver bass drivers, however, "the end justifies the means" as we say.

 

[markstein]

@Purité Audio I know this a difficult question to answer, however, how would you characterize the Ascilab combination sound signature vs the GGNTKT M3 (which I listened to at the Norddeutsche Hifi Tage in Hamburg earlier this year. I thought this was one of the best sounding speakers there)

 

[Purité Audio]

Both fantastic, and far more alike than different, just trying to draw some conclusions at this very moment and failing.
I listen to one and think, that’s better then I switch and think that’s better!
Keith

 

[SharpEars]

Ascilab is the very definition of a paper launch/vaporware as far as I am concerned. If you can't actually buy the product, it's not a legitimate choice worth considering.