Ascilab C8C Active Speaker Review

[AsciLab]

Hi all,

Here's an update on the controller I mentioned earlier. Following the macOS version, we're now also developing a Windows version with the same features.
It isn't ready for release yet, but it has come a long way, so I'd like to show where it stands and hear your thoughts before we finalise it. Screenshots attached.

Working in our internal build now

Multi-speaker management

• Connect several FusionAmp-based speakers at once, switch between them one by one, and give each a nickname. Identify flashes the LED so you can see which physical speaker you're controlling.
• Groups: link amps (e.g. a stereo pair) so volume, mute, input and optionally preset move together. Volume moves by the same step on every member, so an intentional level offset between them is kept.

Everyday control

• Volume, mute, input and preset, with a Max Level Limit that caps everything the app can raise (volume, preset offsets, preset switching, volume on start).
• A compact quick-access controller in the menu bar (system tray on Windows).
• Phone control: scan a one-time QR code on the same Wi-Fi to control volume, mute, input and preset from a phone browser, with no app to install. It runs over plain HTTP, so it's meant for trusted home or studio networks only. The level limit and all other settings stay in the app.

Device settings

• Per-preset volume offsets and inputs, digital channel select (L / R / L+R), auto power-off with signal detection, wake on line, volume on start, and shutdown mode.
• Device info: firmware, FIR tap counts, amp temperatures.

EQ, crossover and delay (previously on our "waiting" list)

• 9-band console EQ per preset, with REW biquad filter import (Hypex model only) and a warning before writing if the combined boost exceeds +6 dB.
• Crossover: Butterworth 1st–8th and Linkwitz-Riley 2nd–8th order, built as cascades of first- and second-order sections.
• Added delay per preset in 0.1 ms steps. All channels move together, so the internal alignment is kept.

What's next

• It isn't settled yet whether every function above will make it into the public version. We're still bug-testing, and anything that isn't stable may be left out. We're also working out which advanced functions (EQ, crossover, FIR switching) users get, and how, so the factory voicing can't be lost by accident.
• Since the app can upload dedicated preset packages, a factory reset will always be possible with a file we provide if needed.
• Many of the descriptions still read like developer notes. Awkward or unclear wording will be cleaned up.

If there's something you've missed in HFD, or anything you'd want (or not want) in a user-facing controller, please let us know here. Thanks!

 

[tifune]

If your new app has the ability to adjust the LEDs, can you add options to turn it off? Ideally I'd like it to display red when In sleep, then off (or very dim) when speaker is on.

 

[kharan]

Is firmware update to 1.1 without needing to schedule up a remote desktop session on the roadmap?

 

[AsciLab]

Is firmware update to 1.1 without needing to schedule up a remote desktop session on the roadmap?

There is an uploader in the app for that kind of task. We can share our filter file with password.

 

[AsciLab]

If your new app has the ability to adjust the LEDs, can you add options to turn it off? Ideally I'd like it to display red when In sleep, then off (or very dim) when speaker is on.

We'll figure it out. Thank you for the suggestion!

 

[TheKoC]

Thanks a lot, thats really impressive. I assume there is no chance of getting Wifi-Adapters to work on the USB Port of the Hypex Amps?

 

[AsciLab]

Thanks a lot, thats really impressive. I assume there is no chance of getting Wifi-Adapters to work on the USB Port of the Hypex Amps?

I think you mean the LAN port, currently we don’t have a way to transfer the USB to LAN.

 

[TheKoC]

I think you mean the LAN port, currently we don’t have a way to transfer the USB to LAN.

No, I meant connecting a Wifi Dongle to the USB Port of the speaker, so you wouldn't need a wired connection, but I realize now that won't work.

 

[nbot]

There is an uploader in the app for that kind of task. We can share our filter file with password.

Can you share this with me too? I have C8C with 1.0 firmware and would like to upgrade to 1.1

 

[pat355]

same here please

 

[JensA]

Sorry for this rather dumb question (which might already have been answered in the previous 54 pages of this thread):

What is the recommended way to connect sources to the C8C?

For example, if I have a WiiM Ultra or an Eversolo DMP A10 or something similar:

Should I use the streamer’s analogue output?

It sounds a bit illogical to me: the digital source is first converted into an analogue signal in the streamer’s DAC, only to be digitised again in the C8C...

So using digital out of the Streamer appears to be more appropriate to me.
On the other hand, I listen to a lot of vinyl, which is, after all, an analogue signal…

And:
Wouldn’t a dedicated ‘digital transport’ (without any DAC) such as the Eversolo T8 in any case better in that case (although would require an - external? - ADC for my analogue vinyl signal somewhere in the chain) ?

Can anyone help me make sense of this?

 

[AudioJester]

Sorry for this rather dumb question (which might already have been answered in the previous 54 pages of this thread):

What is the recommended way to connect sources to the C8C?

For example, if I have a WiiM Ultra or an Eversolo DMP A10 or something similar:

Should I use the streamer’s analogue output?

It sounds a bit illogical to me: the digital source is first converted into an analogue signal in the streamer’s DAC, only to be digitised again in the C8C...

So using digital out of the Streamer appears to be more appropriate to me.
On the other hand, I listen to a lot of vinyl, which is, after all, an analogue signal…

And:
Wouldn’t a dedicated ‘digital transport’ (without any DAC) such as the Eversolo T8 in any case better in that case (although would require an - external? - ADC for my analogue vinyl signal somewhere in the chain) ?

Can anyone help me make sense of this?

You can use digital or analogue - the sound will effectively be the same. You can connect different sources to different inputs -eg. streamer to AES input and turntable to analogue input. The new Ascilab software and soon to be hub also gives you remote volume control.

What sources do you currently have? You can just use what you have at hand.
I would suggest spending extra money on adding the BX8C rather than buying a new streamer etc.

 

[JensA]

You can use digital or analogue - the sound will effectively be the same. You can connect different sources to different inputs -eg. streamer to AES input and turntable to analogue input. The new Ascilab software and soon to be hub also gives you remote volume control.

What sources do you currently have? You can just use what you have at hand.
I would suggest spending extra money on adding the BX8C rather than buying a new streamer etc.

Many thanks for quick reply.

Sources:
Audio:
I have a large (digital) music library with lifetime Roon subscription which is mainly used for listening to music.
Besides I still have a Linn LP12 and phonopreamp.
Video:
BluRay Player and Amazon Fire TV Cube as sources

Streamer Input/Outputs:
My Streamer all analogue and digital inputs I need (incl HDMI).
On output side there is a HDMI out feeding my projector but I have no adjustable digital out but analogue out only.

So there is no need for a new streamer IF I can use the analogue out for connecting the C8C although for me it still doesn't look ideal to send digital signals through the streamer's DAC only to get it digitized by the C8C's ADC again, etc..

BX8C:
They are of interest, ofcourse, but the C8C/Bx8C combo is a bit too high with 139cm and therefore get in the way of the projector screen.
With my present setup the maximum height of the speakers should be no more than about 120cm (like the Kii Three/BXT combo which unfortunately is $$$$).
My room is about 4m x 6m in size, so I might be fine with C8C only (or the Kii Three)

 

[AudioJester]

Yeah, C8C alone are pretty amazing.
If you have a projector - do you run a multichannel setup?

 

[Drengur]

[cries in Linux]
(Good job though)

 

[JensA]

Yeah, C8C alone are pretty amazing.
If you have a projector - do you run a multichannel setup?

No, 2.0 only.

I presently have pretty large speakers (about 117cm (h) x 35cm (b) x 40 cm (d)) and would really like to downsize a bit on speaker size.
C8C (or Kii Three) would have the benefit that I would not need external amps anymore.

 

[pat355]

The new Ascilab software and soon to be hub also gives you remote volume control.

may I ask what you mean with "soon to be hub"? I've been busy with work recently and haven't followed the latest developments with AsciLab, just saw they're releasing a Mac version of HFD?

 

[Luvchampagne]

Imho, worrying about adc dac cycles on the c8c and then not getting bx8c is like stepping over 100 Euro note to pick up a little coin.
The bx8c is a bass management system that allows the c8c to perform even better. It crosses over higher.
Listening to the c8c vs. C8c + bx8c is a night and day experience. I highly doubt you could detect the extra adc dac cycle in a ABX test more than purely random guessing.

 

[markstein]

Imho, worrying about adc dac cycles on the c8c and then not getting bx8c is like stepping over 100 Euro note to pick up a little coin.
The bx8c is a bass management system that allows the c8c to perform even better. It crosses over higher.
Listening to the c8c vs. C8c + bx8c is a night and day experience. I highly doubt you could detect the extra adc dac cycle in a ABX test more than purely random guessing.

I have to agree regarding the obvious increase in sound quality ("authority") when adding the BX8C. I also have to agree on the other hand that the full tower of BX8C plus C8C looks frightening large to some people. I got used to it in the meantime...

I am still not sure that - in smaller to medium rooms - a combination of C8C plus 4x subs plus Dirac ART might be the better solution. Although there is plenty of distortion free bass level from the BX8C plus C8C combination, physics remains physics and even the cardioid functionality in extended mode (down to below 30Hz) does not get rid of bass room modes, at least in my setup. Additional subs distributed across the room help smoothening the bass across a larger listening area. That is why I am finally thinking of adding ART or Umami Soup or something more simple like a MSO optimized distributed bass array below 80Hz...

 

[a_ron]

I have to agree regarding the obvious increase in sound quality ("authority") when adding the BX8C. I also have to agree on the other hand that the full tower of BX8C plus C8C looks frightening large to some people. I got used to it in the meantime...

I am still not sure that - in smaller to medium rooms - a combination of C8C plus 4x subs plus Dirac ART might be the better solution. Although there is plenty of distortion free bass level from the BX8C plus C8C combination, physics remains physics and even the cardioid functionality in extended mode (down to below 30Hz) does not get rid of bass room modes, at least in my setup. Additional subs distributed across the room help smoothening the bass across a larger listening area. That is why I am finally thinking of adding ART or Umami Soup or something more simple like a MSO optimized distributed bass array below 80Hz...

I'm no expert, so please correct me, but my understanding is...

Agreed, cardioid behavior, even down to 50Hz, won't do much to tame room modes and low frequency decay the way multiple subwoofers and Dirac ART can. Multiple well placed subwoofers to smooth out the room modes and reduce any deep nulls. EQ to bring down the peaks. ART (or very deep, or tuned, absorption) to control decay.

Cardioid can be very helpful by generally reducing the amount of off-axis radiation, but it is especially useful for reducing front wall SBIR by placing the speakers such that the front wall cancellation falls where the speaker is most cardioid. The distance of the drivers from the walls, the toe-in of the speakers, and cardioid pattern must all be considered. If you look at the directivity plots for the C8C, the amount and direction of attenuation varies. It seems like placing a C8C toed in with the side woofers 0.25m-0.5m from front walls would do a good job of taking advantage of their cardioid pattern. A benefit of the BX8C is the general reduction in off-axis energy down to 50Hz, but it seems like the largest benefit of the cardioid behavior of the BX8C would be realized if you are placing the C8C+BX8C further from the front walls, where the cancellation drops lower.

Situations and preferences vary greatly, but in my humble opinion, C8C+multiple subs+ART would have more benefit than C8C+BX8C (and almost certainly far more benefit than reducing analog/digital conversions). You don't get the benefit of directivity down to 50Hz, but you can still lower the distortion of the C8C, likely get better extension, get better room mode control, and get better decay below 150Hz.

Then if you have the budget, add the BX8C to the C8C+multiple subs+ART... I'm sure it will be lovely!