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Ascilab C8C Active Speaker Review

Rate this speaker:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 7 2.2%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 54 16.7%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 261 80.8%

  • Total voters
    323
Maybe who didn't hear it in on their own speakers and thus found it not bothering. :D Would like to know the source of that signal.

Worst case to your units would probably have been the clipping indicators turn on.
Yeah those woofers move quite a bit if you do a louder frequency sweep starting at 1 Hz ;)
But I trust Ascilab that they have taken care of proper protection for the drivers.
 
The Xmax excursion quadruples with every halving of the octave; I think that's something you need to figure out.
 
Maybe who didn't hear it in on their own speakers and thus found it not bothering. :D Would like to know the source of that signal.

Worst case to your units would probably have been the clipping indicators turn on.
I was listening at 75 dBC average around my listening spot, it was perfectly fine. The clipping indicators didn't light on.

Having said that, I don't know how they are set up and if they protect against this kind of signal, whether it's too "slow" to catch them.

Yeah those woofers move quite a bit if you do a louder frequency sweep starting at 1 Hz ;)
But I trust Ascilab that they have taken care of proper protection for the drivers.

I wouldn't bet anything on "illegal signals".
 
I was listening at 75 dBC average around my listening spot, it was perfectly fine. The clipping indicators didn't light on.

Having said that, I don't know how they are set up and if they protect against this kind of signal, whether it's too "slow" to catch them.

[...]
That's how C8C with V1.1 DSP are set up:

C8C_V1.1.png


V1.0 had Attack @ 83,3 msec.
 
C8C and similar: Using and MTM with a waveguide on a tweeter is making this new speaker category so great. D'Appolito was right all along, but normal speakers then lacked modern tweeter and waveguides to cross around 1kHz with proper directivity control. The D'Appolito config helps with the room relevant directivity control <1.5kHz. The physical reason why this speaker category sounds more realistic can be found in the measurement data for the early reflections. The early reflection suppression of the ceiling response is just outstanding dampened for such a small speaker, from 600Hz up (assuming some 8ft ceiling height) +45 vertical response, the floor reflection response (-30degree vertical) is good, needs a bit of carpet on the floor. The speakers should stay away from your sidewalls by 1.5m when you sit around 2,5m-3m in front of the speakers to get the same amount of early reflection suppression. This gets you studio room acoustic treatment in normal listening rooms without spending a dime on acoustic room treatment. The most prominent remaining reflection will be the one from the wall behind your seat, if you have normal drywall behind you, it is just a late arriving copy of the direct sound emitted to your ear so quite believable for our brains. The Power DI is also looking great without the need of much acoustic treatment. I would put the speaker toe in beam just behind the ear. I designed my own MTM recently (dual RS180-8) with SB29SDAC in 6" waveguide, xover ~1100Hz (full passive), and it measured very similar early reflection responses as the C8C. For <80Hz I used an end fire subarray with the two Tymphany P835017.
 
The waveguide on the other hand though increases the distance between the two mid drivers above the optimally half wavelength even when crossed as low which can be seen by the compromised vertical directivity plots.

newplot.png

It is still better than most typical other pseudo D'Appolitos and many other non-concentric designs but the compromise should be mentioned.
Just for the technically interested here is an example of an innovative and impressive design with wide horizontal and very narrow vertical raditation:
 
The waveguide on the other hand though increases the distance between the two mid drivers above the optimally half wavelength even when crossed as low which can be seen by the compromised vertical directivity plots.

View attachment 556645

It is still better than most typical other pseudo D'Appolitos and many other non-concentric designs but the compromise should be mentioned.
Just for the technically interested here is an example of an innovative and impressive design with wide horizontal and very narrow vertical raditation:
Looks to be about 1.1λ?
 
I was listening at 75 dBC average around my listening spot, it was perfectly fine. The clipping indicators didn't light on.

Having said that, I don't know how they are set up and if they protect against this kind of signal, whether it's too "slow" to catch them.



I wouldn't bet anything on "illegal signals".
The source of the signal is here:

co.PNG


Nothing illegal about it :cool:
 
Looks to be about 1.1λ?
I would say around 1.4λ assuming approximately (0.5+1+0.5)*8" distance and 1250 Hz cross frequency?
Even 1.1λ of course is quite far away from half wavelength, also it should be kept also in mind that in reality drivers are not just point sources and crossovers don't have infinite slopes.
 
Sorry, I don't understand.
There's a hidden synth somewhere up-there, that's what it goes so low.
The overall low freq sensation though is the combination of low-freq instruments AND the weight of the choir.

Robert Ziegler must be a Rachmaninoff lover, one can tell a little cheating here and there.
(classical is the mother after all, anything after it are small steals :cool: )
 
There's a hidden synth somewhere up-there, that's what it goes so low.
The overall low freq sensation though is the combination of low-freq instruments AND the weight of the choir.

Robert Ziegler must be a Rachmaninoff lover, one can tell a little cheating here and there.
(classical is the mother after all, anything after it are small steals :cool: )
It's still not a reason to have a 19Hz peak, at least do the sensible thing and have it at 24 Hz, where it's also audible by most people.
 
The waveguide on the other hand though increases the distance between the two mid drivers above the optimally half wavelength even when crossed as low which can be seen by the compromised vertical directivity plots.

View attachment 556645

It is still better than most typical other pseudo D'Appolitos and many other non-concentric designs but the compromise should be mentioned.
Just for the technically interested here is an example of an innovative and impressive design with wide horizontal and very narrow vertical raditation:
A bit longer answer.

Yes all that math is understood since the whitepaper from Mithat Konar https://www.birotechnology.com/articles/VSTWLA.html.
Elliptical waveguides and chamfered woofers (mounting rim) help to reduce CTC spacing as does a low fx for the tweeter but then you need a tweeter that has enough linear volume displacement (4* more for 1k vs 2k). If you want, you can use math to simulate the nulls for different vertical angles.
The engineering goal is to first define an overall suppression level (along with frequency range) for early reflections and design the CTC that corresponds with the important directivity angles for early reflections in the targeted listening room (spec). This is very similar to how directional microphones are designed for consumer products.

We still must appreciate what problem the MTM solves, now (C8C, or similar) an MTM with low fx tweeter crossover frequency and strong vertical directivity control, placed in a normal room more strongly resembles the studio recording listening environment, aka intent of the artist. It will obviously sound closer to what the original mix was in a home environment.

If we apply a proper reasoning on how we use loudspeakers in a normal living room, we will find that DI control is actually quite good for such a small loudspeaker (these are not JBL M2 size) and the obsessions around directivity nulls as feature instead of a -6dB threshold 75% soundpower reduction) have not helped the MTM since D'Appolito presented this.

The main discussion/obsession should be around the amplitude reduction of the strongest room reflections that dominate the listening experience in home or semiprofessional settings to resemble how a well-engineered studio room sounds and looks (placement).
If we look at early reflection mitigation (acoustic equivalent of optical splatter) of this MTM the ceiling reflection is already ~6dB down for most midrange and treble (assuming around +45 degree for ceiling angle) and the floor response is equally 6dB down when using a heavy carpet. So the sidewall reflection (>60 horizontal angle desired at least with a 7" woofer pair, it can be controlled by the speaker listening location wall and distance if the room is large enough.
The front wall (relative to speaker) reflection in home listening situation must be looked at. If there is ample of space between the listener and the wall behind him/her then there is nothing needed like in a normal recording studio (the ones. If this wall is close to the listener head (e.g. <1.5m) some local absorbers will get rid of the last remaining distracting early reflection.
There we can preserve the spatial information of the original recording much better in our own listening/living rooms.


The tonal issues of speakers in the different settings will not be resolved as we have after all these years of spinorama measurement no industry standard in room target curve for home hifi and obviously no standard how a home listening room should look like. The content producing side uses a different set of target curves then the home speaker mfg. The "quasi" recording standard (X curve and Dolby Atmos Music) and everything in-between are misaligned with the -0.7dBoctave in room curve (simplified Harman curve) or all Harman curves for their product lines (untrained, average and trained listeners). When listening to various modern produced music content I found that the Dolby Atmos Music steady state room curve is likely the one that is most relevant today, the headphones and earbuds set the target for render reproduction. Needless to say, that the biggest discrepancy is <200Hz.

Lastly, it would be nice to see an ME RL901K measured here for comparison.
 
Have any C8C owners (with or without BX8C) listened to much orchestral music? If so, how well does the cardioid radiation pattern work for this type of music? Do the speakers still produce a large and enveloping soundstage that approximates a large orchestra in a concert hall? Or could some [controlled] room reflections actually be missed for this type of performance?
 
Have any C8C owners (with or without BX8C) listened to much orchestral music? If so, how well does the cardioid radiation pattern work for this type of music? Do the speakers still produce a large and enveloping soundstage that approximates a large orchestra in a concert hall? Or could some [controlled] room reflections actually be missed for this type of performance?

You can point the speakers more forward instead of more towards you to involve the side walls more. The horizontal directivity is excellent even if you are really off-axis at 30-40 degrees.

evmSE9X.png
 
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Have any C8C owners (with or without BX8C) listened to much orchestral music? If so, how well does the cardioid radiation pattern work for this type of music? Do the speakers still produce a large and enveloping soundstage that approximates a large orchestra in a concert hall? Or could some [controlled] room reflections actually be missed for this type of performance?
I just listened to Beethoven's 7th yesterday. I feel like the soundstage is quite good but room and placement matter of course.

My room is not ideal, I have no treatments, speakers are close to the front wall but 3 or more feet from side walls, rear wall is perhaps 4 feet behind the listening position. Speakers are about 8 or 9 feet apart and the listening position is about the same distance . I never have found a 'reference' way to describe toe in/out; I have the drivers pointed toward the listening position but slightly out, meaning the imaginary lines from drivers toward the listener would converge a bit behind the listener instead of going directly to my ears, if that makes sense.
 
Guys are you planning user friendly app (android/ios) in near future? Streaming possibility, more dsp settings, maybe room correction tools? Is this possible at all?

Regards Artur
 
Guys are you planning user friendly app (android/ios) in near future? Streaming possibility, more dsp settings, maybe room correction tools? Is this possible at all?

Regards Artur
The software in the C8C is standard for the Hypex modules, not under the control of Ascilab. It has only windows software (a rather old looking one) and there is no indication that will change.
 
Guys are you planning user friendly app (android/ios) in near future? Streaming possibility, more dsp settings, maybe room correction tools? Is this possible at all?

Regards Artur
The electronics inside the C8C cannot do WiFi or Bluetooth.

You can program Parametric EQ settings for room correction into the C8C, using a Windows PC connected via USB.

But if you want Streaming, Bluetooth, automatic Room Correction, then simply velcro a WiiM Mini to the back of the speaker and connect it via Optical.

The Mini is bit-exact, so you will get the full sound quality that the C8C is capable of.
 
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