Ascilab C8C Active Speaker Review

[Nopiano]

It just depends on how you define zero degrees. I always used to say toe-in if the speakers were at any angle inward from perpendicular to the wall behind them.

Then Erin Hardison defined it in his reviews as any angle inward from the speaker facing directly at the listener.

I’m not aware of any published standards with a definition. But I’m not overly familiar either the standards on speaker measurements.

I always understood it was your first definition too.

Then I began to read ‘toe-out’ and realised it couldn’t possibly mean angled towards the side walls…!!

 

[Scrutable]

@Marin - The refuted statement from Hubi74 is incorrect on its face. EVERY electronic component needs thermal management and EVERY amp gets warm.

Nevertheless, without intending any insult here, your extrapolation is also incorrect. The speakers and amps are fully warranted by the manufacturer and Hypex OEM, AsciLab. If it's designed wrong it's between AsciLab and Hypex, not AsciLab's customers and Hypex.

And of course it was not designed wrong - read the all the docs and look at the photos of the cabinet assembly. The Hypex designers put the vents in and use the outward facing plate to dissipate the heat.

 

[berjine]

Toe in angle refers to perpendicular to front wall.
Off axis angle refers to speaker axis.

Fos Erin at least the toe "neutral" would be speakers pointing at the listening position

Toe out could be perpendicular to the wall, toe in would cross in front of the listener

 

[sigbergaudio]

You know that AsciLab is not the 1st company to use Hypex Fusion plate amps in active speakers, right? Check for example Sigberg @sigbergaudio and see if their defect rates are high or not. Less theoretical and more practical experience.

@Marin These plate amps are designed by Hypex, so it is probably safe to assume that they know quite well how to make a design that transfer heat properly from their own modules. The plate itself is the heatsink in this design, transfering heat from within to the outsdide. So the actual plate gets relatively hot, while the internals on the other side are relatively cool.

I've done long term temperature testing of key points on these boards under heavy load, and it looks very reasonable. Also, zero heat related failures so far (soon 6 years since we started using them).

 

[antisuck]

Just thought I'd drop this here, from page 7 of the Hypex Fusion plate amp manual:

It doesn't appear that these will break from overheating, despite the stern warning in the previously posted screenshot (which actually refers to the bare amplifier modules sold to DIYers and such, and require some minimum diligence where heatsinking and ventilation are concerned). Hypex of course has provided a fine package solution.

 

[pat355]

Did you get an answer? I am going to have another tilt at HFD again today. Hoping for full success especially since I am using analog(ue). I think you said you were using AES?

yes, there is a small defect on my right speaker. It seems like it only affects the front LED, nothing else. I ran many different tests today and it looks like it's an issue with the cable connecting the Hypex FA253 to the AsciLab LED placed at the front. So my case is unique, this shouldn't happen to you.
AsciLab was helpful and proposed me to ship them back to SK, but not thanks. I've been waiting long enough and they play just perfectly as far as I can tell. So if I find that it's something else than this front LED, I'll sent that one speaker back but I do not believe I'll have to. A mere LED issue is completely inconsequential to me.

I did something borderline criminal on this site today too, I connected my NVIDIA TV Shield Pro to my RME ADI-2 PRO FS R (I use SMSL PO100 PRO in between) and again out in AES to the AsciLab. I'm insanely happy with that.
As a musician in another life, I've always enjoyed watching musicians play on videos - I find it even more rewarding than a Tidal listening session even if the quality is obviously significantly reduced. Still, it sounds really fabulous on my C8C and I enjoyed 3 hours of non stop concerts today.
Still honeymoon for me despite a minor setback with the LED issue.

 

[pat355]

I never realized toe in and toe out started with the speakers pointing directly at the listening position. That means toe in would always have the speakers "crossing" in front of the listening position, right?

How far from the front wall do you have them placed?

I used common sense...although life and work have taught me that it's a veeeeery relative concept. Anyways, I didn't think that AsciLab's recommendation was a toe-out of 10° starting from the speakers being perpendicular to the wall...didn't quite make sense to me? maybe I was wrong, but this is how I thought about it.

front baffle is at 75cm from the front wall so still within recommended specs

 

[Marin]

You know that AsciLab is not the 1st company to use Hypex Fusion plate amps in active speakers, right? Check for example Sigberg @sigbergaudio and see if their defect rates are high or not. Less theoretical and more practical experience.

I honestly didn't know that Sigberg speakers use Hypex modules.
Probably Manta or?
But I know they are very expensive, not to say overpriced, and as such they were not sold in large numbers,so the number of broken ones won't be large...
Likewise, Ascilab is a young company and I wish them well but production is very small,they only delivering pre-orders,so not many units until now that can experience failures.
Normally I wouldn't be worried in port designs, like my and your active subwoofers and Sigberg speakers.
But these one are sealed and I don't know where could heat dissipate except for that plate which is at 50 degrees Celsius(so burn by touch?),one can only imagine capacitors,releyes,PCB temperature inside?
I guess time will tell....

 

[sigbergaudio]

I honestly didn't know that Sigberg speakers use Hypex modules.
Probably Manta or?
But I know they are very expensive, not to say overpriced, and as such they were not sold in large numbers,so the number of broken ones won't be large...
Likewise, Ascilab is a young company and I wish them well but production is very small,they only delivering pre-orders,so not many units until now that can experience failures.
Normally I wouldn't be worried in port designs, like my and your active subwoofers and Sigberg speakers.
But these one are sealed and I don't know where could heat dissipate except for that plate which is at 50 degrees Celsius(so burn by touch?),one can only imagine capacitors,releyes,PCB temperature inside?
I guess time will tell....

All our speaker models and all the subwoofers use Hypex modules. I also just explained that the plate is hot by design, so that the insides are not.

 

[kharan]

All our speaker models and all the subwoofers use Hypex modules. I also just explained that the plate is hot by design, so that the insides are not.

There might be a vocabulary issue. The insides are necessarily hotter than the plate itself by necessity, that's how heat transfer works. It would be more accurate too say that the insides do not exceed the temperatures at which they were designed to operate.

 

[Marin]

There might be a vocabulary issue. The insides are necessarily hotter than the plate itself by necessity, that's how heat transfer works. It would be more accurate too say that the insides do not exceed the temperatures at which they were designed to operate.

Exactly that ....
I've seen a lot of magic smoke that came from inside active speakers and that's from reputable brands...
So don't be angry that my red light came on,especially with this "closed design" speaker.

 

[Sokel]

Exactly that ....
I've seen a lot of magic smoke that came from inside active speakers and that's from reputable brands...
So don't be angry that my red light came on,especially with this "closed design" speaker.

We do have to point out that the plate amp used here does not uses kW of power, its 2 x250W+1x100W (burst power) modules if I see them correctly.
Add the 96dB limit to it, plus the thermal protections and everything should be ok.

(I'm NOT a hypex fan myself, but truth must be told, we don't hear sanely used Fusion plate amps to fail frequently.Now, if someone gets them for cheap to drive couple of subs to 120dB SPL (Z) continuously, it's not the amps to blame)

 

[sigbergaudio]

Exactly that ....
I've seen a lot of magic smoke that came from inside active speakers and that's from reputable brands...
So don't be angry that my red light came on,especially with this "closed design" speaker.

But surely Hypex is a reputable amplifier brand? The vents are in the plate itself, the speaker itself can be closed as closed (and should be). Even if it was ported, a loudspeaker port isn't typically placed in a way where heat from an amp (that's typically placed above it) moves out of it like a chimney, quite the opposite.

 

[Robocop]

I've had my active speakers(12 years old) for 10 years. The back plate is warm to touch. Never had any problems. The amps are 4 x Class A/B 100 watt. Speakers are sealed.

 

[kharan]

Exactly that ....
I've seen a lot of magic smoke that came from inside active speakers and that's from reputable brands...
So don't be angry that my red light came on,especially with this "closed design" speaker.

It is meant to be installed in a closed and separate box within the enclosure, just like it is done in the C8C.

 

[Marin]

It is meant to be installed in a closed and separate box within the enclosure, just like it is done in the C8C.

Ok this made a believer out of me...
Obviously these are well-made and high-quality amplification modules.
It makes sense to me that it needs to be installed in a separate compartment from the speaker box, otherwise openings could act as small ports and could interfere with the proper operation of the speakers.

 

[Elmutcho]

Sorry to ask again @AsciLab but I don’t think it’s covered in the manual, with the side firing woofers is there a minimum clearance from the side wall recommended? Thanks

 

[totti1965]

Looooooots of discussion about heat dissipation and so on….

So this raises the question: Will we ever see a passive C6C or C8C or a passive A8C or A6C or a passive S6C or S8C?

Because I love my Topping power amplifiers, I love passive speakers and I simply love quasi D‘Appolito speaker-designs: The stable acoustic center is a big benefit, the good efficiency also and Quasi D’Appolito Speakers are some of the most remarkable speakers I ever heard (here in Germany):
In the early 90‘s the 3-way stereoplay stp 260, in 2011 the big 3-way Hobby HiFi Optimum and today:
If you have EUR 200.000 /Pair you can buy Peak Consult Dragon Legacy from Denmark or for EUR 12.000 /Pair a Nubert NuVero Nova 18!

The AsciLab’s low crossover frequencies of only 1100 Hz or 1200 Hz is quite a thing! It predestinates the AsciLab-speakers for such quasi D‘Appolito Designs, because it is pretty close to real D‘Appolito Constructions with their 2/3 Wavelength condition (Mid speakers not more than 2/3 of the wavelength of crossover frequency apart = Point source simulation).

Today the speaker designers mostly use these designs just as Center speakers -castratet for playing just frequencies over 80 Hz and tilted 90 degrees for fitting under a TV.
It’s a pity!

 

[amirm]

So this raises the question: Will we ever see a passive C6C or C8C or a passive A8C or A6C or a passive S6C or S8C?

You mean you want a speaker with passive cardioid response?

 

[berjine]

Because I love my Topping power amplifiers, I love passive speakers and I simply love quasi D‘Appolito speaker-designs

They are working on 2-way and 3-way center speakers so yes we will probably have d'Appolito-ish passives later this year !

But no passive cardioid per say, the closest will be the C8T which has a nicely controlled directivity down to about 150 Hz