Ascilab C8C Active Speaker Review

[dfuller]

I am experiencing some confusion.

I am referring to the attenuation of lateral acoustic radiation at midrange and high frequencies, not at low frequencies. The slots are designed to achieve this attenuation. The midrange sound emerges 180 degrees out of phase, which is paired with a substantial waveguide for the high-frequency driver.

The Kii addresses bass issues using side and rear drivers with DSP. Dutch & Dutch employs a rear-firing bass driver and DSP; I believed the slots and rear woofer DSP functioned independently to achieve a full-range cardioid characteristic. Is the Ascilab C8C only implementing a cardioid in the bass frequency range? Amphion uses slots and is passive, so its bass response is not cardioid.

Monopole speakers become directional based on driver size and baffle geometry on their own at higher frequencies. No need for any sort of radiation controlling tricks to do that.

Yes, that worries me a lot, and that's why I'm skeptical of active speakers.
There is so much talk about how much voice coil and engine heat in general contributes to compression in passive speakers...

Well, it's a good thing that it isn't a meaningful problem, given there are 30 year old actives from the likes of Genelec and ATC still operating day-to-day in studios.

 

[totti1965]

Not Maiky but

LW == Listening Window

My take on it: optimising for flat LW is good for near field listening. Far field aka living room, optimising for a flat ER or PIR is better. That's what the score does (optimising the PIR==Predicted In-Room Response).

Ha ha ha, and now the next question: The E in ER. Does it mean „Estimated Response“ or such? Serious Question!

Thanx!

 

[AsciLab]

Yes, I'm interested in this too.
The slopes of A6b and F6b seems to be close, but I would characterize C8c as too thin or bright sound View attachment 516845compared to the first two.

Estimated in-room response doesn’t mean there must be “that” curve in the room.
Usually there is a lot more boundary gain at bass range in the room. In my opinion below the Schroeder frequency the real advantage what cardioid directivity gets is less SBIR. Not just less tilted curve.

Though they have same EIR curve, if the DI curve is different each other, they must both sound really different even on the tone balance.

 

[AsciLab]

Ha ha ha, and now the next question: The E in ER. Does it mean „Estimated Response“ or such? Serious Question!

Thanx!

Early Reflection

 

[totti1965]

@pierre: Wow, Thank you for your quick reaktion and showing us the data also for „Score with EQ“!!!

Can you do your magic also for the strong competitor, the Audio First Designs Cadentia 3?
Or is this a bit more complicated with Harry´s Data, and he needs time to send you the raw files?
Did @Maiky76 took also a look on the Cadentia 3?

Great times for scientific oriented audiophiles: AsciLab and Audio First Designs - two overwhelmingly good newcomer!

 

[DearSX]

@AsciLab can I place the back of the C8C about 6-10 inches (15-25 CM) from my back wall? and sit about 5.5 feet (1.7 Meters) away? is that going to cause problems?

 

[AsciLab]

@AsciLab can I place the back of the C8C about 6-10 inches (15-25 CM) from my back wall? and sit about 5.5 feet (1.7 Meters) away? is that going to cause problems?

In regarding SBIR it won’t be a problem rather it will have a good response. The next important part is LBIR. Listener to boundary effect also affects great amount as SBIR.

 

[Aldo]

What does the underside of the speaker look like?

 

[totti1965]

Question for @AsciLab regarding the comparison of the A6B vs. C8C:

Would you agree if I said that the A6B might sound a bit more relaxed? The frequency response roll-off between 100 Hz and 20 kHz in the "estimated In-Room-Response" is only 4 dB for the C8C, which is more in line with a good nine-inch studio monitor from Neumann (analytical listening), while for the A6B it's 8 dB.
Both values are simply a matter of own taste.
But for long time listening in a living-room situation - perhaps the more relaxed sound signature of the A6B is preferable?

 

[Scrutable]

Yes, that worries me a lot, and that's why I'm skeptical of active speakers.
There is so much talk about how much voice coil and engine heat in general contributes to compression in passive speakers...

Like many examples in the world these days, I do not think any argument or data will dislodge you from your unfounded opinion.

What does the underside of the speaker look like?

It has a rubbery (neoprene?) pad the full width and length of the flat part of the bottom. Also has some threaded holes, presumably for mounting to the BX8C. Before I received the speakers I wanted to ensure they wouldn't move off the stands (because: catz! ) and considered using thumbscrews through the stand top. But when they arrived they were obviously so dense they are very stable. So they are just sitting there and are fine that way.

 

[Scrutable]

I do have one issue though. The left speaker behaves normally when it comes to going into standby mode. Right speaker doesn't - whatever I try. It goes into some kind of "deep sleep" mode where the LED goes completely off, and it doesn't even detect HFD if I plug my laptop's USB in. That said, it wakes up perfectly fine when music resumes. All parameters exactly the same for both speakers. I tried connecting them in analog, same. I then switched the right speaker to low power mode, then back to initial standby (<0.5W) mode. Doesn't help. Weird behavior --> I wrote to AsciLab's support.

Did you get an answer? I am going to have another tilt at HFD again today. Hoping for full success especially since I am using analog(ue). I think you said you were using AES?

 

[Purité Audio]

it doesn't sound "bright" to me at all. Subjective, yes - but I played guitar in a band for 2 decades and any brightness in my Strat always bothered me so I'm sensitive to this. I can't say I've noticed anything in that respect at least until now...

I have all the AsciLAB designs they are much more similar than different the C8C is just a bit clearer .
Keith

 

[Marin]

Like many examples in the world these days, I do not think any argument or data will dislodge you from your unfounded opinion.

It has a rubbery (neoprene?) pad the full width and length of the flat part of the bottom. Also has some threaded holes, presumably for mounting to the BX8C. Before I received the speakers I wanted to ensure they wouldn't move off the stands (because: catz! ) and considered using thumbscrews through the stand top. But when they arrived they were obviously so dense they are very stable. So they are just sitting there and are fine that way

The manufacturer itself states this and warns "defect caused by overheating due to poor thermal menadgment are NOT coverd by warranty..."

 

[Sokel]

The manufacturer itself states this and warns "defect caused by overheating due to poor thermal menadgment are NOT coverd by warranty..."View attachment 516902

As it was me who posted it (as general as the blancet statement), the datasheet refers to Hypex modules, not plate amps.

To my understanding (and as plate amps come straight from Hypex) , they use the plate as their heatshink, along with the slots.
And although they may get warm, it shouldn't be a problem for the small modules.

Their bigger plate amps use active cooling.

 

[AudioJester]

Its almost like deja vu for me. Feels like the same experts were warning about longevity of active speakers when I bought my first Genelecs 20yrs ago!

Quite prepared to change a plate amp if necessary. But i have confidence in Hypex and Ascilab engineering

 

[traind]

I assumed that it meant the following: I made an equilateral triangle so that 2 of the sides would be hitting my ears directly (not behind me). Then I estimated with 10° out, ie away from the initial configuration. Not scientific I know, but I don't have a way to measure 10° precisely - not that it matters for me anyways, I'm not crazy about this. Does this answer your Q?

I never realized toe in and toe out started with the speakers pointing directly at the listening position. That means toe in would always have the speakers "crossing" in front of the listening position, right?

How far from the front wall do you have them placed?

 

[Matias]

The manufacturer itself states this and warns "defect caused by overheating due to poor thermal menadgment are NOT coverd by warranty..."View attachment 516902

You know that AsciLab is not the 1st company to use Hypex Fusion plate amps in active speakers, right? Check for example Sigberg @sigbergaudio and see if their defect rates are high or not. Less theoretical and more practical experience.

 

[kharan]

You know that AsciLab is not the 1st company to use Hypex Fusion plate amps in active speakers, right? Check for example Sigberg @sigbergaudio and see if their defect rates are high or not. Less theoretical and more practical experience.

Pitt & Giblin too.

 

[Matt_Holland]

I never realized toe in and toe out started with the speakers pointing directly at the listening position. That means toe in would always have the speakers "crossing" in front of the listening position, right?

How far from the front wall do you have them placed?

It just depends on how you define zero degrees. I always used to say toe-in if the speakers were at any angle inward from perpendicular to the wall behind them.

Then Erin Hardison defined it in his reviews as any angle inward from the speaker facing directly at the listener.

I’m not aware of any published standards with a definition. But I’m not overly familiar either the standards on speaker measurements.

 

[Matias]

Toe in angle refers to perpendicular to front wall.
Off axis angle refers to speaker axis.