Ascilab C8C Active Speaker Review

[Det15]

You are reading frequency response graph. We are talking total harmonic distortion in relation to the main tone. Different measurements.

Harmonic distortion being displayed in relative SPL does not mean the speaker is putting out 96 dB flat across the frequency spectrum during the measurement. Again:

The C8T is ~ -10dB at 30 Hz. Don't just look at the title of the measurement saying "@ 96 dB", look at what it actually does.

If the significance isn't coming across: a speaker produces lower distortion with lower SPL, in absolute as well as relative terms.

 

[thewas]

As already written in some other AsciLab thread, off-axis responses should turn a bit down towards the top octave to allow different listening distances without adjusting toe-in or EQ.

Can you please elaborate on that? I thought that high frequencies have a higher absorption at increasing distances so at these where sound power/off-axis start to play a bigger role such a behaviour would be counterproductive?

 

[ZolaIII]

Harmonic distortion being displayed in relative SPL does not mean the speaker is putting out 96 dB flat across the frequency spectrum during the measurement. Again:




If the significance isn't coming across: a speaker produces lower distortion with lower SPL, in absolute as well as relative terms.

SPL comes from relaxing analog transcever from what it can't or does difficult. Let impedance phase crossing be your guideline back to driver's FS and then you attempt to compromise and improve for closed box adding little bit of extension to Butterwort Q. Problem is cardioid nead fixed point 150 Hz crossover in order for flare to stay such narrow so this thing ain't getting relief there. I don't have side wall refractions issue even in small room and not that many speakers would have serious problem with early (side wall) refractions anyway. You always need to improve back to front refractions ratio (ISO 3382) but I can do that even with relatively limited accustic treatment to mids borderline, trick is in box (trap) depth neaded to get there and number of layers more then absolute density and mass of material and not a single material to start with. For me transistency and time domain are more of a priority.
What's the use of speaker producing 30 Hz output if it chokes it and it limps in time to 80 Hz for another 30~40 ms or more? For that you will need huge area cone big quite good subwoofer driver (starting from 15" squere almost cone equivalent to 18" round one) even FS would be only a little under this 8" one and we are talking 117 dB SPL output max kept almost linear 25 Hz 7 ms closed not exaggerated closed box). 64 of this 8" one's won't give you that. 8" is good as mid woffer to do main bass ritam/bit section. You can't cheat physics.

 

[martin900]

LOL it is classic ASR. a review of a reasonably excellent device and you will find the microscope users coming from their caves to complain endlessly, take the thread of course only to course correct for a few pages and descend back into needless complaining again

If you have money to burn, sure, go on. I like to get my money worth and buy stuff for longer periods of time. I don't want a car that does 0-60 in 2s but blows the engine after 10k miles.
This is not a throwaway Topping that you don't care about if it fails after the warranty ends.

 

[pat355]

If you have money to burn, sure, go on. I like to get my money worth and buy stuff for longer periods of time. I don't want a car that does 0-60 in 2s but blows the engine after 10k miles.
This is not a throwaway Topping that you don't care about if it fails after the warranty ends.

"money being burnt" is merely your own speculation - I'm not sure too many people are interested in this topic on this particular thread. Why don't you open another one and have at it ad lib ?

 

[Matt_Holland]

Harmonic distortion being displayed in relative SPL does not mean the speaker is putting out 96 dB flat across the frequency spectrum during the measurement. Again:




If the significance isn't coming across: a speaker produces lower distortion with lower SPL, in absolute as well as relative terms.

Any thoughts on my previous comment comparing C8C and C8T THD at 50Hz/96dB?
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-c8c-active-speaker-review.69938/post-2539590

 

[Det15]

Any thoughts on my previous comment comparing C8C and C8T THD at 50Hz/96dB?
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-c8c-active-speaker-review.69938/post-2539590

Yes.

Amir's distortion measurements are performed with a non-anechoic method. Even if viewed in relative SPL, they're not entirely representative, as the room influence at the fundamental might be very different from the room influence at the harmonic frequency. I think they're a decent approximation, but no more than that.

Ascilab's distortion measurements do seem to be performed with an anechoic method. So they're of greater accuracy, and not directly comparable.

 

[Matt_Holland]

Yes.

Amir's distortion measurements are performed with a non-anechoic method. Even if viewed in relative SPL, they're not entirely representative, as the room influence at the fundamental might be very different from the room influence at the harmonic frequency. I think they're a decent approximation, but no more than that.

Ascilab's distortion measurements do seem to be performed with an anechoic method. So they're of greater accuracy, and not directly comparable.

Thanks. Do we have Ascilab's distortion data for C8C to compare against their data for C8T?

I'll make the point again, though, that the C8T looks like it has the highest performance/cost ratio of all their products so far.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

SPL comes from relaxing analog transcever from what it can't or does difficult. Let impedance phase crossing be your guideline back to driver's FS and then you attempt to compromise and improve for closed box adding little bit of extension to Butterwort Q. Problem is cardioid nead fixed point 150 Hz crossover in order for flare to stay such narrow so this thing ain't getting relief there. I don't have side wall refractions issue even in small room and not that many speakers would have serious problem with early (side wall) refractions anyway. You always need to improve back to front refractions ratio (ISO 3382) but I can do that even with relatively limited accustic treatment to mids borderline, trick is in box (trap) depth neaded to get there and number of layers more then absolute density and mass of material and not a single material to start with. For me transistency and time domain are more of a priority.
What's the use of speaker producing 30 Hz output if it chokes it and it limps in time to 80 Hz for another 30~40 ms or more? For that you will need huge area cone big quite good subwoofer driver (starting from 15" squere almost cone equivalent to 18" round one) even FS would be only a little under this 8" one and we are talking 117 dB SPL output max kept almost linear 25 Hz 7 ms closed not exaggerated closed box). 64 of this 8" one's won't give you that. 8" is good as mid woffer to do main bass ritam/bit section. You can't cheat physics.

Respectfully, it might be a good idea to input your native language into a good LLM or translator tool and paste the English translation here. Your posts are very hard for me to parse, and many of the forum's members are not native Anglophones.

 

[Jiraya369]

state of the art" drivers (i don't know how much it matters)

if you dont know why it matters, why are you going for em exactly?

also the question of lifespan of electronics and the serviceability

and yeah, that's what i talked about as well, active speakers have the issue of the amp dying but if people can use genelecs for a decade or so i think this one should be okay and serviceability is an issue with both models ig.

And if you're asking for most bang for your buck, C6B with dual subwoofers is the way to go. I'm using my C6B with a single subwoofer and im mostly happy, it's not possible to fit in 2 subs in my small room, i listen in the nearfield so this is all i NEED.

 

[staticV3]

Do we have Ascilab's distortion data for C8C to compare against their data for C8T?

Measurements for all of Ascilab's models are posted here:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/ascilab-speakers-are-about-to-launch.54794/

 

[Matias]

Yes.

Amir's distortion measurements are performed with a non-anechoic method. Even if viewed in relative SPL, they're not entirely representative, as the room influence at the fundamental might be very different from the room influence at the harmonic frequency. I think they're a decent approximation, but no more than that.

Ascilab's distortion measurements do seem to be performed with an anechoic method. So they're of greater accuracy, and not directly comparable.

What do you mean? Both Amir and AsciLab use Klippel NFS, which AFAIK perform anechoic measurements in non-anechoic rooms by gating the signal. Both should be comparable.

 

[Gary_G]

Yes.

Amir's distortion measurements are performed with a non-anechoic method. Even if viewed in relative SPL, they're not entirely representative, as the room influence at the fundamental might be very different from the room influence at the harmonic frequency. I think they're a decent approximation, but no more than that.

Ascilab's distortion measurements do seem to be performed with an anechoic method. So they're of greater accuracy, and not directly comparable.

According to the Ascilab website they use the same Klippel system that @amirm uses.

 

[IngMishael]

If you have money to burn, sure, go on. I like to get my money worth and buy stuff for longer periods of time. I don't want a car that does 0-60 in 2s but blows the engine after 10k miles.
This is not a throwaway Topping that you don't care about if it fails after the warranty ends.

no correlation but go off. also oh, ignored

 

[RexrothPigeon]

According to the Ascilab website they use the same Klippel system that @amirm uses.

Can confirm that AsciLab has a Klippel NFS. I've seen it.

 

[staticV3]

What do you mean? Both Amir and AsciLab use Klippel NFS, which AFAIK perform anechoic measurements in non-anechoic rooms by gating the signal. Both should be comparable.

See the difference? Amir doesn't use the NFS' cancellation tech for distortion measurements.

 

[kharan]

if you dont know why it matters, why are you going for em exactly?

and yeah, that's what i talked about as well, active speakers have the issue of the amp dying but if people can use genelecs for a decade or so i think this one should be okay and serviceability is an issue with both models ig.

Let's not ignore the problem, electronics fail at a rate much higher than speaker drivers, it's reasonable to be worried about it.

A number of C8C's Fusion Amps, hopefully a low one, will fail. What matters is that Ascilab and/or their dealers will keep an inventory of spare parts to repair those products out of warranty for a number of years after the last C8C has been sold and replaced by its successor.

This is one reason why people buy Genelec, even their long discontinued products can be serviced and repaired.

 

[AsciLab]

What do you mean? Both Amir and AsciLab use Klippel NFS, which AFAIK perform anechoic measurements in non-anechoic rooms by gating the signal. Both should be comparable.

To measure anechoic response in room, we have to use ISC module (in situ compensation feature). Without this fucnction the in room measured response and the distortion aren’t anechoic response.

We compensate the response with that module. AFAIK Amir doesn’t use it. So the distortion at the bass region might be a bit different each other where the room interaction is strong.

 

[AsciLab]

View attachment 516573 View attachment 516574

See the difference? Amir doesn't use the NFS' cancellation tech for distortion measurements.

For example, due to the 100Hz bump in the fundamental response can make the H2 at 50Hz boost.

And less fundamental SPL than actual output can make it look to have higher distortion as relative(normalized) plot.

We can see the big difference at the 50Hz.
Our measurement shows the H2 is about -26dB, while Amir’s shows it is -18dB.

I don’t mean to criticize. Only I want to tell is that we have to read the measurement more precisely.

 

[Jiraya369]

Let's not ignore the problem, electronics fail at a rate much higher than speaker drivers, it's reasonable to be worried about it.

A number of C8C's Fusion Amps, hopefully a low one, will fail. What matters is that Ascilab and/or their dealers will keep an inventory of spare parts to repair those products out of warranty for a number of years after the last C8C has been sold and replaced by its successor.

This is one reason why people buy Genelec, even their long discontinued products can be serviced and repaired.

im not saying one shouldnt ignore the problems but considering the fact that we're all on this site, fomo is gonna hit sooner or later and people are gonna switch far earlier than their product would fail, in general at least.

Maybe I just notice all the bad stuff but it seems people have a hard time holding onto things and not having FOMO in this hobby.\

But yeah, I wish active speakers had easily replaceable amps, idk why no one does it.