Ascilab C8C Active Speaker Review

[Bruce Morgen]

I don't know how the reliability of these speakers suddenly became an issue that would affect buying decisions. The first production samples just sold outside of Asia and were delivered just last week. They each have 4 off the shelf high-end drivers and 2 built to spec drivers, a highly regarded off the shelf plate amp with clipping protection, and a 3 year warranty. I have had 2 different sets of Yamaha powered monitors for 20 years, and 5 plate amp subs of various ages up to about 20 years, and not even a single problem with any of them. Maybe C8Cs will have the working life of fruit flies but why assume it with no evidence?

There's nothing "sudden" about that stance -- the passive speaker faction has been bringing up the potential unreliability of the electronics in active speakers for many moons to reinforce their inertia about entering the 21st century.

FWIW, my all-Kali front line has performed without a hiccup for several years, but the "Sledge" plate amp in my SVS subwoofer did make smoke and had to be replaced under warranty. The replacement arrived lightning fast along with a prepaid return label for the casualty, and the DIY involved was minimal.

 

[Mort]

The short lifecycles of appliances won't change as long as the general public accepts them and buys more based on price than paying for quality (which is usually cheaper in the long term

How do you know this? I don't think it is cheaper to buy for life. I support it theoretically but I would want to see evidence before I could agree because that's not what I see.

 

[Torin Krell]

Excellent review Amir! Is there a setting that does not make use of linear phase equalization in the active crossover so latency is reduced? (This is a choice that Genelec and other monitor manufacturers sometimes offer) With the 25ms latency that apparently the linear phase crossovers utilize these speakers will not generally be suitable for live instrument monitoring - and if the whole reproduction system adds even more latency video sync may need some compensation.

 

[AsciLab]

Excellent review Amir! Is there a setting that does not make use of linear phase equalization in the active crossover so latency is reduced? (This is a choice that Genelec and other monitor manufacturers sometimes offer) With the 25ms latency that apparently the linear phase crossovers utilize these speakers will not generally be suitable for live instrument monitoring - and if the whole reproduction system adds even more latency video sync may need some compensation.

Minimum Phase Mode gives shortest latency. Less than 2ms. (Analog 1.8ms, Digital 0.35ms)

 

[Paweł L]

Nice speakers
I see it uses some Hypex Ncore inside. Just checked > Hypex FusionAMP FA253 (NCore NC252MP 2x250W + 100W DSP ADAU1452 DCC AK4454 192kHz)

Some pics :

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Are these SB Ceramic cone midwoofers and tweeter or variant made for Rebel.
The DSP unit is a blast - all the possible connections one might wish, other than I2S, and USB C to stay with current standards.

 

[amirm]

Excellent review Amir! Is there a setting that does not make use of linear phase equalization in the active crossover so latency is reduced? (This is a choice that Genelec and other monitor manufacturers sometimes offer) With the 25ms latency that apparently the linear phase crossovers utilize these speakers will not generally be suitable for live instrument monitoring - and if the whole reproduction system adds even more latency video sync may need some compensation.

As noted, you just push the toggle switch in the back to select "minimum phase" low latency mode.

 

[Jiraya369]

As I stated before, this speaker completely invalidates the S6B in my eyes, if someone has the space and isn't deathly afraid of active speakers, this is just exactly what the A6B and stuff wanted to be, a speaker with which you don't NEED a subwoofer.

S6B with a sub is a smart, compact option though, especially if one's itching for the 60 degree dispersion but still, I think this is the speaker most people should go for, either go for this or stick with the C6B and add 2 subwoofers.

 

[Arthur Edwards]

I am unclear about one aspect: I do not observe the side slots present in the Dutch & Dutch and Amphion Krypton models, which are responsible for producing a cardioid horizontal radiation pattern.

 

[Chromatischism]

As I stated before, this speaker completely invalidates the S6B in my eyes, if someone has the space and isn't deathly afraid of active speakers, this is just exactly what the A6B and stuff wanted to be, a speaker with which you don't NEED a subwoofer.

S6B with a sub is a smart, compact option though, especially if one's itching for the 60 degree dispersion but still, I think this is the speaker most people should go for, either go for this or stick with the C6B and add 2 subwoofers.

Subwoofers are used not just as an extension of a speaker, but to do things better than a speaker. They do that with size, power, and location to manipulate physics itself.

 

[Everett T]

I am unclear about one aspect: I do not observe the side slots present in the Dutch & Dutch and Amphion Krypton models, which are responsible for producing a cardioid horizontal radiation pattern.

More than one way to skin a cat.

 

[Descartes]

This is a review, listening tests and detailed measurements of the Ascilab active 3-way monitor with DSP and cardioid response. A member was kind enough to let me review his preorder. US Cost is $3,125 each (inclusive of tariff). Pricing varies in different regions.
View attachment 516050
NOTE: My company, testedaudio.com, is the exclusive distributor for Ascilab products in North America. While objective tests remain the same as for any other speaker, subjective remarks may have business bias.
The C8C is a substantial package with drivers seemingly on every available surface! Packaging is on the serious side with very nicely rounded corners and such. A set of grills with magnetic mount is provided for the front midwoofers (nothing is available for the side woofers due to excursion).

Three amplifier channels are used per speaker courtesy of Hypex Fusion Amp "Plate" with included DSP:
View attachment 516051
Both analog and digital inputs are provided. The user interface though can be a bit confusing. Company is working on a quick start to get you through it better. What seems to be input selector button, is actually three different modes of operation. I left it in the "P2" default linear filtering. Input is auto-switching out of the box. You can hook up a USB cable and change the settings including a multi-band EQ to tailor the sound and/or optimize for the room.

A front LED is provided which blinks while searching for a signal. It stays green when input is selected and is playing. It turns red to indicate overload so I would not cover it unless you are sure you never overdrive it.

There is a companion BX8C bass module which extends the bass response down further. That option is not yet available. For that matter, the C8C is not available for 2 to 3 months either. What is shipping is pre-orders from early January.

Ascilab C8C Speaker Monitor Measurements
Before I show you the frequency response, let me post a graph I rarely publish. It is the computed response from Klippel NFS vs reality:
View attachment 516052

The dashed red is the target. As you see, it is 1% -- good enough for speakers. In low frequencies, this is trivial to achieve due to simplicity of the woofer response. At higher frequencies however, the tweeter output combines with diffraction sources, port/cabinet resonances, etc., creating a complex soundfield. Klippel NFS can deal with this but requires many more measurement points. By default, I use about 1000 sweeps which is able to keep the high frequency error rate around 1% for most speakers. Here, we see that the same sampling resulted in much lower error rate indicating a very clean output from the speaker, devoid of typical interference sources. The previously measured A6B acted similarly. Very nice early indicator of a good design!

Now to the main dish, the frequency response:
View attachment 516053
Another pleasant surprise: deeply extended frequency response and on-axis is that almost ruler flat other than a slight bump from 4 to 5 kHz. Company measurements show a lower amount so almost negligible compared to mine. I will test the audibility of this in listening test section. Otherwise, this is impeccable response.

Company suggested a 20 degree toe in/out and indeed, that nicely flattens that region:
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The early window shows a bit of high frequency boost but interestingly, as it sums up with the on-axis in predicted in-room response, that goes away:
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The cardioid response attempts to continue the directivity of the tweeter down to much lower frequencies and we can see that:
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This ostensibly reduces room reflections although the modal response remains below 100 Hz. The BX8C extension should deal with that.
Here is our horizontal directivity:
View attachment 516059

Vertically the dual woofers bring cancellations causing a very narrow directivity. So stay at tweeter axis:
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Response is quite good at 86 dBSPL but slightly strained at 96 dBSPL:
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We can dig in more with my new low frequency sweep comparison:
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We see dual new mechanisms of distortion, one kicking in around 62 Hz and the other at 40 Hz. I don't see the former much of a limitation but the latter, was definitely audible at 101 dBSPL. Compared to A6B, the limit was much higher and maximum distortion, lower. Again, we will examine all of this in the listening tests.

Finishing off, here are the near-field response, step response and waterfall:
View attachment 516065
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I could not correlate the resonances in CSD with other measurements so don't know what is up there.

Ascilab C8C Speaker Listening Tests
I again had my youngest son with me to listen to these speakers for a second option and another set of eyes. I placed the C8C in my main listening area near my everyday speaker on a solid stand. As with A6B, very little vibration was coupled through the stand and floor -- something I do enjoy to some extent in my standard setup.

First impression was truly "wow!" Clean and deep bass combined with highs that jumped out of the speaker as if to tell their own story. Latter gave every sense of detail you ever wanted. I mean really, this is as much accuracy and pleasure you could ask for in such a compact speaker (half the height of my usual towers). Track after track put a smile on my face. I just don't remember testing speakers that produced such a response.

While I was admiring the highs floating in air, I wonder if some of that was due to the slight boost in 4 to 5 kHz that I saw in the on-axis response. So I dialed in a quick and dirty filter which later on, I programmed into the speaker using Hypex Filter Design software:
View attachment 516069
With this filter in pace, the highs no longer took front stage over voices and such. Company suggested a milder setting of 4,500 Hz and -1 dB. That did not attenuate the highs that I was hearing. But we are really in "circle of confusion" here. Who knows what is exactly right here. I did play the same clips with my Salon 2 speaker and while no quick AB was possible, I did think my filter was closer to what the Revels produced. Fortunately owners can mess with this all they want.

How about sub-bass response? I used my special track and was again, surprised how loud I could crank it and how deep the response was. Up to quite high levels of playback, the deep bass was produced with the warmth I expect only from truly full range speakers. I am talking volumes that only I can tolerate compared to most people. Turning up 1 or 2 dBs above this created audible distortion. A bit more and the clipping indicator came on indicating the amp was also running out of power.

While professional monitors limit you from turning up the levels too much, the C8C let me keep pushing the sub section well into excursion and amplifier limits. My advice: don't do that. We are talking a single speaker fully filling my huge space before any of this happened. But if you do need to go there, the BX8C should fill that need.

Note that other than this special track I have, I could not get the drivers upset. I could, get the clipping light to come on from time to time but that again, was at very loud levels and distortion not audible.

Bottom line: A+ reproduction with very high, but definite limit to ultra low bass response.

Conclusions
This what happens when you trust your parachute to work and jump out of a plane. Trust the science that creating a very accurate speaker with extreme deep bass response will put a smile on your face. That is what the C8C does. It delivers in every aspect, other than blowing your hair back at 20 Hz. With so many smaller speakers dying off at 40+ Hz, this is revelation. Yes, the cost is high but consider that you have just about everything you need. I just connected my Eversolo streamer to it and was good to go. A minimalistic system with superb performance. The combination with BX8C should be insane as it fills the only hole we have here with highest levels of playback.

It is my pleasure to recommend Ascilab C8C Active DSP speaker.

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As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Any donations are much appreciated using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/

“How about sub-bass response? I used my special track and was again, surprised how loud I could crank it and how deep the response was. Up to quite high levels of playback, the deep bass …,. ”

What’s the special track?

 

[kemmler3D]

I am unclear about one aspect: I do not observe the side slots present in the Dutch & Dutch and Amphion Krypton models, which are responsible for producing a cardioid horizontal radiation pattern.

Cardioid speakers work by having an out-of phase wave meet the original wave on the side of the speaker. This cancels the sound before it can travel any further behind or to the side of the speaker. You can do this with a slot, or another driver.

 

[amirm]

“How about sub-bass response? I used my special track and was again, surprised how loud I could crank it and how deep the response was. Up to quite high levels of playback, the deep bass …,. ”

What’s the special track?

See: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ascilab-a6b-speaker-review.69864/post-2537507

 

[Jiraya369]

Subwoofers are used not just as an extension of a speaker, but to do things better than a speaker. They do that with size, power, and location to manipulate physics itself.

im sorry what's your point? Which point of mine are you adding onto im confused

 

[dfuller]

I am unclear about one aspect: I do not observe the side slots present in the Dutch & Dutch and Amphion Krypton models, which are responsible for producing a cardioid horizontal radiation pattern.

So, you can create a cardioid radiation pattern in two different ways:

1. Use the back wave from the driver to cancel out the side radiation via carefully tuned ports - this is the D&D, Amphion, Palmer etc way of doing things. Upsides, this system is entirely passive so can be done in analog active or even completely passive speakers and doesn't require any additional drivers or amp and DSP channels. Downside is you need a driver with considerable excursion capability to keep good linearity at more elevated levels if you want the directional behavior to really reach down to the region it's most useful in.

2. Use extra drivers and DSP delay lines - this is the Kii, Mesanovic, Ascilab etc way of doing things. Upside, you don't lose headroom from adding the cardioid response and it can be tuned very precisely. Downside is this is a considerably more expensive option in terms of both complexity and in terms of raw BOM cost (more amp and DSP channels, more drivers).

 

[daniboun]

Are these SB Ceramic cone midwoofers and tweeter or variant made for Rebel.
The DSP unit is a blast - all the possible connections one might wish, other than I2S, and USB C to stay with current standards.

My guess about the Medium woofers > SB17CAC35
Dont know for bass woofers but there are two 8" high excursion aluminium cone subwoofers and for tweeter 1“ Aluminum-Ceramic Tweeter (probably SB acoustics SB26CDC)

 

[EJ3]

How do you know this? I don't think it is cheaper to buy for life. I support it theoretically but I would want to see evidence before I could agree because that's not what I see.

It's cheaper for me than a therapist because I have to keep stopping my life to buy new things to replace broken things that should just work.
And cheaper because I value my time like a lawyer. Not everyone feels that way about their time.
Some years ago, when I was working (which was brutal and included being in war zones, being under communications blackout conditions for weeks at a time and visiting many, many countries that were not under war conditions (but being thousands of miles from where my residence was [and my wife] for as many as 11 months at a time, my time was worth $40 an hour, and every year a 6 week paid vacation with 2 additional weeks unpaid (or two 3 week vacations with pay & 1 week unpaid) and 2 plane trips to where ever I wanted to go and back.
That is why, for some things like stereo gear, shoes that I like, clothes that I like, cars, etc I have duplicates.
A breakdown is not going to stop me, I'll swap out and repair (hopefully) later. Or replace if needed.
How you value your time in your cost analysis of having to stop and replace the washing machine when it broke in mid-laundry cycle: may vary.

 

[dasherzx]

As I stated before, this speaker completely invalidates the S6B in my eyes, if someone has the space and isn't deathly afraid of active speakers, this is just exactly what the A6B and stuff wanted to be, a speaker with which you don't NEED a subwoofer.

S6B with a sub is a smart, compact option though, especially if one's itching for the 60 degree dispersion but still, I think this is the speaker most people should go for, either go for this or stick with the C6B and add 2 subwoofers.

idk, its still a 50-50 for me. the s6b arguably comes with the "state of the art" drivers (i don't know how much it matters), theres also the question of lifespan of electronics and the serviceability. there are alot of budget aiyima poweramps, i can toss them when the time comes, the opposite cant be done.

that being said i believe the window to get these have expired anyway, they should cost 500 dollars more for the later runs I believe...
i echo the sentiment elsewhere if the palmer can be 90% of the c8c, its too bad i'll never get a demo on any of them.

 

[pat355]

idk, its still a 50-50 for me. the s6b arguably comes with the "state of the art" drivers (i don't know how much it matters), theres also the question of lifespan of electronics and the serviceability. there are alot of budget aiyima poweramps, i can toss them when the time comes, the opposite cant be done.

that being said i believe the window to get these have expired anyway, they should cost 500 dollars more for the later runs I believe...
i echo the sentiment elsewhere if the palmer can be 90% of the c8c, its too bad i'll never get a demo on any of them.

while the Palmers do seem to be excellent monitors, I fail to understand the speculation that they can be x% (put whatever number) of the C8C. They're not in the same category because they're not built for the same application. The Palmer is specifically - according the Palmer themselves - a near-field monitor and was designed with that in mind. Not the C8C.
So if this is just a cost consideration, knock yourself out - but to imagine that they can be simply summarized as being any% of the C8C just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

 

[dasherzx]

while the Palmers do seem to be excellent monitors, I fail to understand the speculation that they can be x% (put whatever number) of the C8C. They're not in the same category because they're not built for the same application. The Palmer is specifically - according the Palmer themselves - a near-field monitor and was designed with that in mind. Not the C8C.
So if this is just a cost consideration, knock yourself out - but to imagine that they can be simply summarized as being any% of the C8C just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

well i guess my own metric for that would be how accurate or similar they sound with a mic across 20-20khz, in the places and listening position i would be using them, and if the remaining 10-unknown % would be worth the added cost for my favorite songs/tracks. but alas.