Ascilab C8C Active Speaker Review

[Matt_Holland]

From their own measurements, in 96 dB, HD relative, from best to worst between these 4.

IMO the A6B is the overachiever.

C8C + BX8C crosses -50 dB around 80 Hz.

A6B crosses -50 dB around 100 Hz.

C8C crosses -50 dB around 150 Hz

C8T crosses -50 dB around 180 Hz.

The real winner here is the C8T. Nearly achieves -40dB all the way down to 30Hz.

If an S8T is on the cards it would be the end-game passive for all but the biggest rooms.

 

[kimmosto]

Most normal forward firing loudspeakers that feature some form of controlled directivity, do so only between the edge of the mid/woofer passband and the working range of the tweeter. The result is a polar which explodes in the midrange, and so the sidewall reflections,...

Agree that (too) many speakers have some step in directivity between lower mid and treble. Textbook cardioid doesn't attenuate much side wall reflections, but fortunately practical solutions are usually closer to textbook super...hyper-cardioid to front sector having at least some attenuation to 70-90 deg off-axis in hor plane. Main task of cardioidish is to provide high front/rear power ratio i.e. attenuate reflections from front wall and front corners when the speakers can't be located far or close enough (or flush) to front wall. Therefore wide range cardioids are usually best to locate close to longer (wider) wall in a smallish room.
Dipole is by far the most effective textbook pattern "against" the side walls, and needs also air on the back so it's probably better option to short (narrow) wall than cardioids.

which I'd argue are the most important, always have a certain amount of coloration.

This is (also) highly related to early decay time (EDT) and flutter echo. Side wall reflections are surprisingly harmless if flutter echo is prevented with adeqaute diffusion (or damping).

In that respect I much prefer a much more constant directivity down to the modal range.

Basically there is not much...nothing wrong in close to constant directivity, but on-axis shouldn't be horizontal flat in order to create natural and precense sound balance to mid...far field (assumign balanced acoustics). As already written in some other AsciLab thread, off-axis responses should turn a bit down towards the top octave to allow different listening distances without adjusting toe-in or EQ. Together with very low diffarction, this keeps sound balance and sound stage logical to very long distance range without splitting HF to the speakers. Wider radiation at the top octave may sound more spacious, but it has also negative consequences.

 

[Det15]

The real winner here is the C8T. Nearly achieves -40dB all the way down to 30Hz.

The C8T is ~ -10dB at 30 Hz. Don't just look at the title of the measurement saying "@ 96 dB", look at what it actually does.

 

[Matias]

The C8T is ~ -10dB at 30 Hz. Don't just look at the title of the measurement saying "@ 96 dB", look at what it actually does.

Welcome to ASR. You are reading frequency response graph. We are talking total harmonic distortion in relation to the main tone. Different measurements.

 

[martin900]

If they have at least 5-7+ year warranty and use off the shelf parts, I'd consider. This is my main beef and the main reason I'd never even look at D&D or Kii - not repairable without the manufacturer support which is small and can go bankrupt or cease activities at any time.
Otherwise it's way too much of a risk ending with a doorstop when the amp or DSP dies and they inevitably will due to high (hundreds of KHz) ripple on the caps.
The driver units I'm not so worried about, but the DSP and amps.
It looks like the plate is off the shelf Hypex Fusion so we'd just need the firmware with the DSP settings.

 

[Matt_Holland]

The C8T is ~ -10dB at 30 Hz. Don't just look at the title of the measurement saying "@ 96 dB", look at what it actually does.

Yes, C8C extends lower than C8T. So let’s compare THD at 50Hz then where both have strong output and where a ton of musical information for bass instruments exists.

C8C: ~-26dB
C8T: ~-37dB

 

[EJ3]

I would recommend moving them for better frequency response. Time alignment does not require them to be physically in the same place.

I moved from a huge place to a tiny place (the living room is ever so slightly larger than than the bedroom that I had before).
And, even if that were not the best place, that is the only place.
It's also the way I designed it for the previous place.
Actually, technically I don't need the subs (I just like more BASS!)
The mains:
The close-miked woofer (and port) of the mains response is also flatter than most speakers, with a very small bass-resonance peak. At the system resonance of 60 Hz, the output is only about 2 dB above its average level in the upper part of the woofer’s range, and even that minor output variation was spread over almost two octaves.
When the bass curve is spliced to the room-response measurement, the resulting composite frequency response is flat within about ±2 dB from 26 to 20,000 Hz. The horizontal directivity of the tweeter is only discernible in the room measurement above 10,000 Hz.
Quasi-anechoic FFT measurements shows an overall group-delay variation of about 0.1 millisecond between 4,000 and 20,000 Hz and 0.5 ms between 1,000 and 20.000 Hz

I see no reason to move anything.
(Not even myself).

 

[AudioJester]

Ok, worked out why I think subwoofers are unnecessary with C8C!

 

[AudioJester]

@AsciLab - what do you think is the best strategy to tackle this?

Will start with placement etc, but wont make a big difference. Could pull the speakers out, currently 15cm from wall.

Should I use PEQ in HFD, PEQ in Roon, or generate a convolution filter in Acourate and load into Roon?
Or a combination of above?

Edit: by the way, the bass is excessive but not boomy. All my other speakers in similar pisition have had big peaks and dips <100Hz, this curve is really unique.

 

[AsciLab]

@AsciLab - what do you think is the best strategy to tackle this?

Will start with placement etc, but wont make a big difference. Could pull the speakers out, currently 15cm from wall.

Should I use PEQ in HFD, PEQ in Roon, or generate a convolution filter in Acourate and load into Roon?
Or a combination of above?

It looks there are some room resonances below 200Hz. Like that resonances will be better to be EQed in HFD cause it is fixed curve unless you don’t move the speakers a lot or the listening position.

Cut the resonances first in HFD and use the smooth shelves to adjust the tone balance in the Roon. Cause the preferred tone balance might be varied by your moods, time and music.

If there are some problem in the phase like cancellation, Group delay spike(you can check it in the REW GD tap by generation minimum phase. Check the exceed GD) it will be helpful to use convolution filter.

By the way what a deep bass! The overall curve looks already great and must fit to most of people’s preference.

Edit: When you combine them with the BX8C, the curve will be even smoother than now.

 

[Robocop]

If they have at least 5-7+ year warranty and use off the shelf parts, I'd consider. This is my main beef and the main reason I'd never even look at D&D or Kii - not repairable without the manufacturer support which is small and can go bankrupt or cease activities at any time.
Otherwise it's way too much of a risk ending with a doorstop when the amp or DSP dies and they inevitably will due to high (hundreds of KHz) ripple on the caps.
The driver units I'm not so worried about, but the DSP and amps.
It looks like the plate is off the shelf Hypex Fusion so we'd just need the firmware with the DSP settings.

Well the life expectancy of most home appliances is 10 years max in our modern world why would you expect HiFi to be different.

My own speakers have drivers that are no longer available even though the manufacturer of both the drivers and speaker (Unity Audio UK) are still in business. These are ELAC drivers manufactured 2012. Now upgraded. Mine still function as intended but if fail new speakers in the works. Spares parts really are a low consideration in our world.

Robert

 

[EJ3]

Well the life expectancy of most home appliances is 10 years max in our modern world why would you expect HiFi to be different.

My own speakers have drivers that are no longer available even though the manufacturer of both the drivers and speaker (Unity Audio UK) are still in business. These are ELAC drivers manufactured 2012. Now upgraded. Mine still function as intended but if fail new speakers in the works. Spares parts really are a low consideration in our world.

Robert

Perhaps you accept that short life for appliances. Of course, you can't buy based only on price if you want things to last.
The short lifecycles of appliances won't change as long as the general public accepts them and buys more based on price than paying for quality (which is usually cheaper in the long term). I refuse to buy disposable products as much as possible. I consider it to be a disposable product that is designed to fill the land fill if it cannot be easily kept operational for more than 10 years.
All of my stereo gear (from 1977 [most of it is from late 1970's-1990's] through new product purchases I made in the last 6 months) works just fine. (yes, some of it has been refurbished and updated).
My washing machine, dryer & dishwasher are well over 20 years old & have only needed seals. Same for my 2004 Mercedes 320 E (150,000 miles) and 2004 Chevy Silverado Truck (205,000 miles, that I tow with frequently [less than 6800 lbs.]).
I have a 2024 Subaru CrossTrek that I lifted 2 inches and modded the engine for 25 more ft. lbs. of torque (I worry that if I make more power: the CVT transmission will not last).
I think that vehicle was a mistake and will likely take more work than I am willing to put into it to make 20 years.
My 2013 Lexus ES350 would have likely easily made 20+ years but a crazily incompetent's driver of another vehicle took it out.

 

[Robocop]

I don't want to detract from the C8C's but in general I've always bought high quality with longevity in the past. My drivers were high quality but the manufacturer has upgraded them and no parts or old drivers now available. I guess with progress to electronic advances we can expect shorter product life not from wear but unavailability no longer made.

 

[Billy Budapest]

Though it is already answered above, this below is our philosophy.


A few thoughts on the sound of AsciLab speakers:

What AsciLab aims for is simple: to build the most faithful electro-acoustic transducer possible.

People sometimes say flat speakers might sound boring or lack personality, but I think that usually comes from either not realizing how difficult it is to make a speaker that is truly neutral, or simply not having heard one done properly.

If we think about what people call “sound character,” many speakers on the market actually carry various physical errors or untreated distortions. Sometimes these are emphasized and turned into a kind of house sound, and sometimes distortions that were never really addressed are simply described as “character.”

That said, this is not meant to dismiss the charm or historical significance of older design philosophies. Vintage speakers, classic BBC-style monitors, acoustic suspension designs, and so on all have their own place and value.

But many of those approaches, when viewed from today’s technical standpoint, can also be seen as the result of the limitations of their time. Even so, they were often sincere attempts to move closer to purity and realism in sound.

The best efforts of every generation deserve respect. Still, I think it is important today to distinguish between genuine character and simply treating unresolved technical shortcomings as if they were a virtue.

In that sense, AsciLab is not trying to cultivate a particular “sound signature.” Our goal is simply greater purity in sound reproduction.

What I meant is that are there any interviews with you in the press, or any recorded video interviews, describing your philosophy, company, etc.?

 

[Scrutable]

I don't know how the reliability of these speakers suddenly became an issue that would affect buying decisions. The first production samples just sold outside of Asia and were delivered just last week. They each have 4 off the shelf high-end drivers and 2 built to spec drivers, a highly regarded off the shelf plate amp with clipping protection, and a 3 year warranty. I have had 2 different sets of Yamaha powered monitors for 20 years, and 5 plate amp subs of various ages up to about 20 years, and not even a single problem with any of them. Maybe C8Cs will have the working life of fruit flies but why assume it with no evidence?

 

[AsciLab]

What I meant is that are there any interviews with you in the press, or any recorded video interviews, describing your philosophy, company, etc.?

We don’t have any interviews or press yet.

 

[EJ3]

What I meant is that are there any interviews with you in the press, or any recorded video interviews, describing your philosophy, company, etc.?

Usually that kind of thing is just BS Marketing, anyway.

 

[dtaylo1066]

It's a dandy. Why would one want to pay more for a speaker? Tremendous design.

I wish the amps had a USB input, but that is a minor quibble.

 

[IngMishael]

I don't know how the reliability of these speakers suddenly became an issue that would affect buying decisions. The first production samples just sold outside of Asia and were delivered just last week. They each have 4 off the shelf high-end drivers and 2 built to spec drivers, a highly regarded off the shelf plate amp with clipping protection, and a 3 year warranty. I have had 2 different sets of Yamaha powered monitors for 20 years, and 5 plate amp subs of various ages up to about 20 years, and not even a single problem with any of them. Maybe C8Cs will have the working life of fruit flies but why assume it with no evidence?

LOL it is classic ASR. a review of a reasonably excellent device and you will find the microscope users coming from their caves to complain endlessly, take the thread of course only to course correct for a few pages and descend back into needless complaining again

 

[EJ3]

LOL it is classic ASR. a review of a reasonably excellent device and you will find the microscope users coming from their caves to complain endlessly, take the thread of course only to course correct for a few pages and descend back into needless complaining again

But, but, but: there is the evidence: NONE, so far. I suspect (and hope) that it may be a long, long time before there is any evidence of failures.