ME Geithain makes big cardioids if you want to go that route.That would be awesome! Too many speaker producers forgot that many of us have no problem what so ever with having big speakers!
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Ascilab C8C Active Speaker Review
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dcolak
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4367's are around 10K USD, these are 7K USD. The comparison is not that far fetched. No one said smaller speakers shouldn't exist but, I do not see the point of having a speaker you cannot play loud enough to experience the music in its full glory.
Why not being able to enjoy the full dynamic range at realistic sound levels?
Because not every space can fit or needs a speaker that large.
I missed the fact that the C8Cs are $3200 per unit and not per pair, but I can't find the JBLs for less than $16000/pair making them still more than twice as expensive.
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96 dB is plenty enough to provide both full dynamic range and hearing damage.
Assuming this is the previously mentioned C5C, any chance it will be compatible with BX8C?
At retail the 4367s are around three times the price for a pair, at least here in the USA. Yes, your comparison is far fetched. Add in the bass modules and then you're in a similar pricing tier. And yes, that would be an interesting comparison.
Again, show me a speaker in a similar size that can support reference level playback across bass frequencies, or anything close to it.
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You're only going to be experiencing any sort of meaningful distortion on the loudest peaks while listening at reference levels, and that will be almost entirely H2 in the lowest couple of octaves. As Amir described in his listening test, it simply isn't an issue unless you're going into obnoxious volumes. And that was with one speaker. For most people, this will do more than adequately even for far-field listening.
Yes, it can be improved still further with a well-integrated subwoofer or two. Or you can get much larger speakers. Or the bass module that is already on Ascilab's road map. Unsure why people feel the need to complain that a speaker that is objectively very good doesn't fit their particular niche. Should I crap on every speaker review that isn't an in-wall model?
Up to 9 dB of additional bass headroom with B8XC.
b73i57dc3f
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AsciLab shared their own measurements here:
And here are the frequency responses from Amir's 86 dB and 96 dB distortion measurements overlaid (86 dB shifted up 10 dB):
Just a precision, those charts aren't created using the same signals.
Amir is running a sine sweep for THD measurements, the likelyhood of a 10 kHz signal at 96 dB is pretty much zero. It is interesting data to have, but one shouldn't be comparing the two charts.
That is like comparing a $100k SUV vs a $100k Sedan or $100k Coupe or $100k Pickup truck. They may all cost the same, but have different weights, sizes, specs and motivation. Each finds a way to justify its price for the intended use.
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dcolak
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Everything is turned bland these days. We need 100 dB+ peaks to enjoy fully the music. It's mind blowing once you hear speakers that do support high SPL, and no, they don't have to be that big or expensive.
I don't understand why companies insist on doing all the crazy stuff just so they do not have to use a bigger woofer or more sensitive drivers or god forbids a bigger box!
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We don't need to recreate sitting less than 10 feet from instruments being banged about full bore to enjoy them.
We can enjoy full dynamic range within safe limits.
IngMishael
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someone is going on my ignore list with their annoying pestering here
Preference Rating
SCORE: 7.4
SCORE w/sub: 8.1
Frequency response: ±4.8dB 20Hz-20kHz ; ±5.1dB 80Hz-20kHz
SCORE: 7.4
SCORE w/sub: 8.1
Frequency response: ±4.8dB 20Hz-20kHz ; ±5.1dB 80Hz-20kHz
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To be frank, I am reasonably confident that a pair of C8Cs in my room, can deliver 100 dB peaks with music without breaking a sweat. I'm not listening to 30 Hz sine waves.
EJ3
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I am unaware of what other's cross their subs over at (mine are custom DIY). But what you say is more or less true of mine because their possible FR is 20 Hz-80 Hz, so High Pass is 55 Hz, Low Pass is 70 Hz. They are FLOOR FIRING port tuned to 29 HZ 12" DUAL 4 OHM voice coils (made into a single 4 OHM circuit for each sub) which has around 900 watts RMS available to each sub, which is what my mains sit on top of (keeping then more or less time aligned).
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There are pretty sophisticated standards to evaluate dynamic capabilities of speakers. You can:
Or just take the easy way out and characterize only dynamic compression using signal similar to regular program material. A shaped pink-noise-like signal, with 12dB crest factor below ~500Hz and increase crest factor above that. Just like regular music. Lets agree on stop condition - find peak level, where DUT compresses broadband 2dB, narrow band 3dB. Also keep distortion in check - lets say roughly 10-20%. No psychoacoustic filters needed, as distortion in electroacoustic transducers is benign, until it isn't. Use free software, like Open Sound Meter. Or SpeakerMeasure.
When we have baseline of max SPL and frequency range, everyone could mentally reduce it based on whatever psychoacoustic threshold they feel comfortable using. I wouldn't bother, based on Voishvillo's and Geddes's research on the subject.
- characterize the used DSP protection system
- characterize heating/cooling effects
- transducer nonlinearities (compression due to BL/Kms/Le nonlinearity)
- rubbing/buzzing effects
Or just take the easy way out and characterize only dynamic compression using signal similar to regular program material. A shaped pink-noise-like signal, with 12dB crest factor below ~500Hz and increase crest factor above that. Just like regular music. Lets agree on stop condition - find peak level, where DUT compresses broadband 2dB, narrow band 3dB. Also keep distortion in check - lets say roughly 10-20%. No psychoacoustic filters needed, as distortion in electroacoustic transducers is benign, until it isn't. Use free software, like Open Sound Meter. Or SpeakerMeasure.
When we have baseline of max SPL and frequency range, everyone could mentally reduce it based on whatever psychoacoustic threshold they feel comfortable using. I wouldn't bother, based on Voishvillo's and Geddes's research on the subject.
ZolaIII
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Not really that's what ELC is for but here is a elephant in the room. With bass reinforcement (the highest peak) and ELC added you need both good control and fast decay time (time domain) as the knee for ELC is at 105 Hz crossover should be at 120 Hz to keep harmonics from propagating. To average how we like to listen when ELC dosent add that much boost mid to uper 70's 80 Hz XO will do fine as long you provide enough SPL and DR headroom under it of course.
Second one is Rino babe, seriously second one is main bass ritam/beat peak and again you don't want its harmonics propagating in mids (we are talking about controled response not stripped off totally), every peek beyond won't be close to this (exaggerated maybe like bright sax playing high but you don't really want to listen to that).
Secondly white focused noise is quite more intense for a driver then isolated or even wide standing peek so it's not reali it + DR, true peek (not counting in mixing and limiters it might contain).
To me that part of response transistency is more of a value then cardioid patern (I will do just fine with little broader response), everyone is free to disagree. The woffer tuning on C8C shouldn't be a problem (as it's DSP) and I suggested under cut (low self) and mild Q 0.71 to it hoping it would be positive received hopefully incorporated as separate preset but instead received mindless critics (if I even can call them that). Goal improve 80 to 200 Hz range THD or SPL and relax the woofer a little bit. Example of the shelf KH310A. Still you can do that yourself and better fitting actual need case so it's not that big thing if they aren't playing alone to start with. They will do near field fine but more than mid feald I wouldn't even try tho they aren't designed for that in the first place.
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