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Ascilab C6B & F6B Launched – Ask Questions, Share Feedback

T.T. said:
New C6B owner here. As many others, I decided to buy them thanks to Erin's review.
My observations after a few days (be aware Elac DBR62 have been my daily speakers for almost 5 years)

Overall tonality neutral as expected, nothing jumped at me when I switched from Elac. The bass between 30-40hz is stronger than Elac, but I would not say it is more detailed or "faster". Interestingly both stop sharp at 30hz, I hoped C6B would faintly play few tones lower. I need to say that I placed them exactly at the same spot as Elacs and use the same EQ for room modes. I should be able to make the bass a bit tighter with different placing (not likely to happen), or EQ adjustment (maybe).

The midrange is very clean, definitely a step up from Elac. The treble though, I don't know what to think yet. Elac is maybe a bit hotter, but most of the time I don't notice, I got used to it (after finding the right toe-in). C6B is more neutral, but the reproduction is different, especially cymbals, they sound thin (or sharp, but not in offensive way) and kind of artificial. Normally I don't care about that register too much, but it draws my attention now, notably with jazz/rock. This is my first experience with metal tweeter, maybe I just need to get used to it, I'll see.

In terms of look and feel, slightly disappointed. I have matte black version, I expected the finish to be smooth, but it is a bit grainy and you can feel tiny paint specks. It is a "fingerprint magnet" and it takes effort to clean. There is a thin foam glued to the bottom of the speaker, I would prefer to have the foam/isolation on the stand rather than speaker. The cover ring around the woofer protrudes a bit. But yeah, nitpicking, it looks fine, just doesn't ooze premium.
Click to expand...

UPDATE: as always, rationalization had to follow the first impressions :)

1) For some reason I expected C6Bs to be less sensitive than DBR62s so I increased the volume by few notches. But it's the other way around (85.6db vs 84.3db mean SPL measured by Erin), and while still at low volume, I was listening at a bit higher volume than usual. It was quite enjoyable thanks to the clean midrange, but the cymbals were getting too prominent for my liking.

2) I kept the EQ settings I developed for DBR62, mostly for room modes, but over time it got quite complex and reduced the bass overall (speakers are only 25cm from the front wall). While C6B's bass goes a bit deeper, midbass is very flat, DBR62 on the other hand has a midbass bump (70-200hz) up to 2db from mean. So I made the C6B leaner by using that EQ, which made the upper frequencies stand out more.

3) The C6B tweeter's constant/widening directivity proved to be a double-edged sword. Dbr62's top end is a bit brighter on axis, but its directivity is narrowing and I could effectively tame it by toeing out. That does not work with C6B at all :)

My brain has not yet fully "broken-in", the impression of sparkly cymbals is still present, but it varies a lot between recordings. I need to be more careful with conditioning, start with lower than usual volume and gradually increase to (my) normal levels. I may add some slope to the EQ for treble heavy recordings.

PS: I use Nuprime IDA-8 amp, which is 10 years old class A+D design. I was curious whether its (presumed) load dependency was adding a bit of sparkle. I tried Wiim Vibelink which was measured by Erin and Amir as load independent. Even with my confirmation bias fully turned on, there was no lasting relief, there were a few promising stretches, but I concluded it makes no difference.
 
T.T. said:
UPDATE: as always, rationalization had to follow the first impressions :)

1) For some reason I expected C6Bs to be less sensitive than DBR62s so I increased the volume by few notches. But it's the other way around (85.6db vs 84.3db mean SPL measured by Erin), and while still at low volume, I was listening at a bit higher volume than usual. It was quite enjoyable thanks to the clean midrange, but the cymbals were getting too prominent for my liking.

2) I kept the EQ settings I developed for DBR62, mostly for room modes, but over time it got quite complex and reduced the bass overall (speakers are only 25cm from the front wall). While C6B's bass goes a bit deeper, midbass is very flat, DBR62 on the other hand has a midbass bump (70-200hz) up to 2db from mean. So I made the C6B leaner by using that EQ, which made the upper frequencies stand out more.

3) The C6B tweeter's constant/widening directivity proved to be a double-edged sword. Dbr62's top end is a bit brighter on axis, but its directivity is narrowing and I could effectively tame it by toeing out. That does not work with C6B at all :)

My brain has not yet fully "broken-in", the impression of sparkly cymbals is still present, but it varies a lot between recordings. I need to be more careful with conditioning, start with lower than usual volume and gradually increase to (my) normal levels. I may add some slope to the EQ for treble heavy recordings.

PS: I use Nuprime IDA-8 amp, which is 10 years old class A+D design. I was curious whether its (presumed) load dependency was adding a bit of sparkle. I tried Wiim Vibelink which was measured by Erin and Amir as load independent. Even with my confirmation bias fully turned on, there was no lasting relief, there were a few promising stretches, but I concluded it makes no difference.
Click to expand...
Just wondering what is your source? Looked back a bit in the thread but did not see.

Also, why not start "flat", so without EQ? Can you run two different settings in parallel?
 
SMen said:
Just wondering what is your source? Looked back a bit in the thread but did not see.
Click to expand...
PC > Nuprime IDA-8 (it has built in ESS Sabre DAC)
I don't feed it all lossless, but I did not find that to be the determining factor. It's the recording mix, and the genres I listen to the most (Rock/Metal) are not known for audiophile quality :)

SMen said:
Also, why not start "flat", so without EQ? Can you run two different settings in parallel?
Click to expand...
The problem is that without EQ it is far from flat, I get some nasty peaks in my room, it is unlistenable without EQ (not after I got used to it). I adjusted it for C6B, but that's all below 200hz anyway, so no impact on treble. Not sure what you meant by running the systems in parallel, but I can't do quick A/B between amps or speakers in my conditions.
 
I searched the spec of Nuprime you using and saw this.

IMG_6606.jpeg


Power output doesn’t get twice when impedance double down. It is same.
So I assume it has voltage drop in low impedance.

Our C6B has low impedance than typical.
Its DCR is not that low(about 4ohm) but around 200Hz is 2.6ohm.

And DBR62 looks 6 ohm or 8 ohm speaker.
Around 200Hz it has 5.2ohm.

So if the amp can’t bear low impedance and drop the voltage in that range, C6B midbass range may get lowered.

If you have another amp that can play down to 2ohm, I’d like to suggest you to listen with them again. Or just EQ well :)


IMG_6607.png

IMG_6608.png
 
AsciLab said:
I searched the spec of Nuprime you using and saw this.

View attachment 471406

Power output doesn’t get twice when impedance double down. It is same.
So I assume it has voltage drop in low impedance.

Our C6B has low impedance than typical.
Its DCR is not that low(about 4ohm) but around 200Hz is 2.6ohm.

And DBR62 looks 6 ohm or 8 ohm speaker.
Around 200Hz it has 5.2ohm.

So if the amp can’t bear low impedance and drop the voltage in that range, C6B midbass range may get lowered.

If you have another amp that can play down to 2ohm, I’d like to suggest you to listen with them again. Or just EQ well :)
Click to expand...
thanks for your consideration. I was aware of the C6B's low impedance, I did not bring it up as a problem, because I listen at quite low volumes, nearfield, so I believe that Nuprime has no problem to supply sufficient current levels for my use case. Anyways, as I mentioned I tried also Wiim Vibelink, which Amir tested at 2 ohms. I did not measure the frequency response, but I did not notice more energy in the midbass region. I don't miss anything in the midbass, DBR62 is a bit bloated in that region so the EQ I developed for it was a tad too much for C6B.
 
gekkekoe said:
What would you choose between a new c6b vs used kef r3 meta for roughly the same price? I'm seeing a used pair and its getting tempting since the wait for the c6b is quite long.
Click to expand...
I was in the same boat and stuck with Ascilab because I wanted to support an upstart doing all the right things. If you can’t wait, the R3 Meta looks like it will give you nearly the same performance, with perhaps a bit more high frequency SPL and a bit less low frequency SPL. Here is the in-room estimated from www.spinorama.org:

IMG_6276.png
 
AsciLab said:
I searched the spec of Nuprime you using and saw this.

View attachment 471406

Power output doesn’t get twice when impedance double down. It is same.
So I assume it has voltage drop in low impedance.
Click to expand...

from Nuprime owner on the power rating :)

1755854239253.png


also found one independent measurement: https://www.alpha-audio.net/review/the-best-amplifier-for-1000-euro-2022-edition/9/
1755854505238.png


not sure how it all adds up, but still I believe that for my low volume listening the amp is powerful enough.
 
T.T. said:
PC > Nuprime IDA-8 (it has built in ESS Sabre DAC)
I don't feed it all lossless, but I did not find that to be the determining factor. It's the recording mix, and the genres I listen to the most (Rock/Metal) are not known for audiophile quality :)


The problem is that without EQ it is far from flat, I get some nasty peaks in my room, it is unlistenable without EQ (not after I got used to it). I adjusted it for C6B, but that's all below 200hz anyway, so no impact on treble. Not sure what you meant by running the systems in parallel, but I can't do quick A/B between amps or speakers in my conditions.
Click to expand...
Sorry, what I meant with parallel was preset switchable EQ settings. I'm just curious as to your perceived brightness. I have Triangle Titus loudpeakers - Triangles often accused of brightness from yesteryear - but not a problem since moving to PFFB amps - using 3eaudio A7. But I fully appreciate room conditions can alter perceptions dramatically.
 
SMen said:
Sorry, what I meant with parallel was preset switchable EQ settings. I'm just curious as to your perceived brightness. I have Triangle Titus loudpeakers - Triangles often accused of brightness from yesteryear - but not a problem since moving to PFFB amps - using 3eaudio A7. But I fully appreciate room conditions can alter perceptions dramatically.
Click to expand...
oh, so EQ switching is instantaneous, but as mentioned with EQ off the bass/midbass peaks dominate. I tried WiiM Vibelink which has PFFB and I concluded it does not have an impact on my treble perception.
 
T.T. said:
from Nuprime owner on the power rating :)

View attachment 471467

also found one independent measurement: https://www.alpha-audio.net/review/the-best-amplifier-for-1000-euro-2022-edition/9/
View attachment 471468

not sure how it all adds up, but still I believe that for my low volume listening the amp is powerful enough.
Click to expand...
Then it won’t be a reason.
Maybe you just need a little shelf EQ.
But it’s curious. Our top end is a bit lowered to compensate wide top frequency dispersion.
Anyway sharing listening impression is always helpful and glad. :)
 
AsciLab said:
Then it won’t be a reason.
Maybe you just need a little shelf EQ.
But it’s curious. Our top end is a bit lowered to compensate wide top frequency dispersion.
Anyway sharing listening impression is always helpful and glad. :)
Click to expand...
I noticed there's a fair bit of difference in the tilt of the spin data of F6B as linked from the AsciLab storefront page vs as-measured by Amir's klippel.
The store data would indicate a reasonably flat, but bright sound. Amir's has a pretty steep and consistent slope.

What might be the reason for the difference?


 
jEDGEc0m said:
I noticed there's a fair bit of difference in the tilt of the spin data of F6B as linked from the AsciLab storefront page vs as-measured by Amir's klippel.
The store data would indicate a reasonably flat, but bright sound. Amir's has a pretty steep and consistent slope.

What might be the reason for the difference?


Click to expand...
We discussed this to Amir and found there was some stacks of a little deviation from measurement mic and driver. It’s around 1dB at top frequency. Though it’s safe in Class 1 measurement microphone deviation range, we’re gonna find more precise calibration curve.
 
Thinking about ordering the C6B from Audiophonics. Are they a good match with the Wiim Amp Ultra?
 
Just demonstrated the Eversolo ‘Play’ with the F6B and they sound great.
Keith
 
T.T. said:
3) The C6B tweeter's constant/widening directivity proved to be a double-edged sword. Dbr62's top end is a bit brighter on axis, but its directivity is narrowing and I could effectively tame it by toeing out. That does not work with C6B at all :)
Click to expand...
Changing the position of the speakers can be thought of as "physical EQ". Have you tried regular old EQ? That's usually the move with constant directivity speakers.
 
Curvature said:
Changing the position of the speakers can be thought of as "physical EQ". Have you tried regular old EQ? That's usually the move with constant directivity speakers.
Click to expand...
What move specifically you refer to? It was quite a journey to balance room constraints, room modes, stereo image etc. Some minor movements are possible but practically what I am left with is toe in/out. I don't sit in equilateral triangle, I am quite closer to the speakers than I should be, and with further toe out I feel like the soundstage is breaking up.

Anyways, it is not fatiguing so I think there is still potential for "brain EQ" :)
 
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