AsCi Labs @ Purité Audio

[prestigetone]

Anytime I see a speaker that measures above and beyond all others they have purifi drivers. Almost all of the best stuff is courtesy of bruno.

 

[Sokel]

I don’t disagree the Purifi is good, but do the specs on paper translate to audible differences vs the lower cost SBAs (or even Dayton!)? I doubt it

They sure do depending their useful low distortion linear range and the x-over point.
It's one thing to have a driver doing nice 25Hz-1kHz and another to do 25Hz-200Hz for example.

The first can be good even with a 500Hz x-over the later is only good down to 100Hz or so.
Now,companies do all kinds of tricks to cut costs so they can push drivers higher at the expense of higher distortion, or lower sensitivity, etc.

But quality is quality, no one can argue that.

 

[AsciLab]

The Ascilab lineup may seem complex, but it can be simply categorized as follows:

There are three product lines: F, C, and S. Each line includes a passive bookshelf speaker and an active cardioid speaker. Additionally, a bass stand will be available to enhance low-frequency extension and improve bass dynamics.

 

[MKR]

They sure do depending their useful low distortion linear range and the x-over point.
It's one thing to have a driver doing nice 25Hz-1kHz and another to do 25Hz-200Hz for example.

The first can be good even with a 500Hz x-over the later is only good down to 100Hz or so.
Now,companies do all kinds of tricks to cut costs so they can push drivers higher at the expense of higher distortion, or lower sensitivity, etc.

But quality is quality, no one can argue that.

SB, etc do not make quality drivers? I am not convinced on the audibility of said low distortion of Purifi … maybe Purifi makes it easier to “get right” as a designer, but in the right hands, I expect many other drivers sound just as good, and for a lot less money. Anyway, no way to prove or disprove without blind testing I suppose, and I don’t want to further derail ASCIs thread, so I will step out of this topic, beating a dead horse at this point

 

[prestigetone]

@Purité Audio what are the colors you will carry? I am seeing a lot of metallic options but will they still offer the plain unfinished white and green? The naming convention needs to be simplified I think. Can't wait to see the cardioid all purifi speakers. Those will be something special.

 

[Vladimir Filevski]

I really don't understand the lame attempts of @dagfinn and @MKR to bash ASCILAB loudspeakers?!

@dagfinn started with comparing prices of 6" ASCILAB loudspeaker with 5" Genelec?! Then, confronted with this wrong comparison, he quickly switched to comparing prices of new ASCILAB with second-hand Genelec?! After pointing out that such comparison of prices is just wrong, he lamely replayed:

Second hand is part of reality too

But in reality it is illogical to compare prices of new and second-hand - it is beyond comparing apples to oranges!
Then, comparing subwoofers he falsely claimed ASCILAB has (implicitly single) 10" woofer compared to unspecified (implicitly single) 15" Genelec sub (7380 is the only model with single 15"). After pointing out that ASCILAB sub has four 10" woofers, he quickly switched to comparing Genelec W371A which have 15"+12" with ASCILAB four 10" woofers sub. But after pointing out that those 15"+12" including their Xmax translates to only 11200 cm^3 total displacement volume compared to ASCILAB 21000 cm^3 (almost double!), he tried to invalidate that with this:

Technically, mathematically I'm sure you're right. ... For me as user, I am partial to bigger woofers.

But then he falls into a contradiction:

In my room I never get close to max SPL available, I listen at 80-90dB, depending on type of music/instruments.

Why he wants bigger woofer when he listens to only 80-90 dB SPL???

And what about this:

If you don't know Richard C. Heyser, here's a bio.

To state that loudspeaker designer don't know who is Richard Heyser is a new low...
And so on...

On the other hand, @MKR tried to question the use of expensive Purifi woofers in ASCILAB sub, because:

why would you use such an expensive driver such as the Purifi 10” when there is no audible performance difference between it and a comparable SB acoustics 10”, for example?

is this lower distortion performance audible, all else being equal using the premium SB 10”? I would say no, but happy to be proven wrong.

I am not convinced on the audibility of said low distortion of Purifi … I expect many other drivers sound just as good, and for a lot less money.

But he falls in his own trap:

Anyway, no way to prove or disprove without blind testing

He didn't do blind testing, but he is sure lower distortion of Purifi woofers has no merit?! Amazing!

 

[Reddoc]

I really don't understand the lame attempts of @dagfinn and @MKR to bash ASCILAB loudspeakers?!

@dagfinn started with comparing prices of 6" ASCILAB loudspeaker with 5" Genelec?! Then, confronted with this wrong comparison, he quickly switched to comparing prices of new ASCILAB with second-hand Genelec?! After pointing out that such comparison of prices is just wrong, he lamely replayed:

But in reality it is illogical to compare prices of new and second-hand - it is beyond comparing apples to oranges!
Then, comparing subwoofers he falsely claimed ASCILAB has (implicitly single) 10" woofer compared to unspecified (implicitly single) 15" Genelec (7380 is the only model with single 15"). After pointing out that ASCILAB sub has four 10" woofers, he quickly switched to comparing Genelec W371A which have 15"+12" with ASCILAB four 10" woofers sub. But after pointing out that those 15"+12" including their Xmax translates to only 11200 cm^3 total displacement volume compared to ASCILAB 20000 cm^3 (almost double!), he tried to invalidate that with this:

But than he falls into a contradiction:


Why he wants bigger woofer when he listens to only 80-90 dB SPL???
And so on...

On the other hand, @MKR tried to question the use of expensive Purifi woofers in ASCILAB sub, because:






But he falls in his own trap:


He didn't do blind testing, but he is sure lower distortion of Purifi woofers has no merit?! Amazing!

Well said, Vladimir- these appear to be just a couple of cynics aiming to pull down yet unable to build up.
ASciLab, I reckon you are wasting your time replying (although we have all learned a lot about your approach and your speakers from these replies!) as these two don't seem interested in arguing, just trying to run you down.

 

[MKR]

I really don't understand the lame attempts of @dagfinn and @MKR to bash ASCILAB loudspeakers?!

@dagfinn started with comparing prices of 6" ASCILAB loudspeaker with 5" Genelec?! Then, confronted with this wrong comparison, he quickly switched to comparing prices of new ASCILAB with second-hand Genelec?! After pointing out that such comparison of prices is just wrong, he lamely replayed:

But in reality it is illogical to compare prices of new and second-hand - it is beyond comparing apples to oranges!
Then, comparing subwoofers he falsely claimed ASCILAB has (implicitly single) 10" woofer compared to unspecified (implicitly single) 15" Genelec (7380 is the only model with single 15"). After pointing out that ASCILAB sub has four 10" woofers, he quickly switched to comparing Genelec W371A which have 15"+12" with ASCILAB four 10" woofers sub. But after pointing out that those 15"+12" including their Xmax translates to only 11200 cm^3 total displacement volume compared to ASCILAB 20000 cm^3 (almost double!), he tried to invalidate that with this:

But then he falls into a contradiction:


Why he wants bigger woofer when he listens to only 80-90 dB SPL???

And what about this:

To state that loudspeaker designer don't know who is Richard Heyser is a new low...
And so on...

On the other hand, @MKR tried to question the use of expensive Purifi woofers in ASCILAB sub, because:






But he falls in his own trap:


He didn't do blind testing, but he is sure lower distortion of Purifi woofers has no merit?! Amazing!

Why so angry? Not at all bashing the clearly very good design of ASCI, and I said so explicitly … To paraphrase myself, I doubt the distortion benefit of Purifi is audible and hence the ROI of these drivers is questionable, and why not use a lower cost option, simple as that. You need to read more carefully.

 

[MKR]

Well said, Vladimir- these appear to be just a couple of cynics aiming to pull down yet unable to build up.
ASciLab, I reckon you are wasting your time replying (although we have all learned a lot about your approach and your speakers from these replies!) as these two don't seem interested in arguing, just trying to run you down.

Nope, also wrong, not at all a “pull down” of ASCI, rather questioning the use of Purifi. I think this is a valid question and ASCI treated it as such and did not take offense, neither should you.

 

[Vladimir Filevski]

To paraphrase myself, I doubt the distortion benefit of Purifi is audible and hence the ROI of these drivers is questionable, and why not use a lower cost option, simple as that.

You doubt, but you didn't do blind comparison? Why you doubt then? Simple as that!

 

[AsciLab]

Actually I rather welcome these questions about our products. I can explain the advantages of our products thanks to those conversation.

 

[MKR]

You doubt, but you didn't do blind comparison? Why you doubt then? Simple as that!

I doubt because at a certain point levels of distortion are not audible, Purifi is in this territory (because they are such well designed drivers I might add) … ASCI has the ability and opportunity to perform said blind testing, which given their superb engineering curiosity and ability, and desire to provide the most value to their customers, I suspect they would want to do. I do not have this capability, simple as that. Is it not the purpose of ASR to have such engineering discussions?

 

[MKR]

Actually I rather welcome these questions about our products. I can explain the advantages of our products thanks to those conversation.

Thank you for your professionalism, I fully expected such a response

 

[Vladimir Filevski]

I doubt because at a certain point levels of distortion are not audible,

Yes, below certain point distortions are not audible.
But...

Purifi is in this territory

How do you know Purifi is in this territory? How do you know its distortion is below audibility (i.e. SB woofers are /good enough/already in this territory/ so no need for expensive Purifi)? Evidence? No? Just as I thought.
Oh, but you doubt...

 

[AudioJester]

Are Purifi coming out with larger diameter drivers?

 

[thewas]

Nope, also wrong, not at all a “pull down” of ASCI, rather questioning the use of Purifi. I think this is a valid question and ASCI treated it as such and did not take offense, neither should you.

From one side I understand your questioning, especially when it comes to audibility between very low distortion drivers. On the other hand as you can imagine such is not easy at all to determine in blind listening as you would need to make everything else as close as possible, meaning to possibly design different waveguides, crossovers etc. Also I can fully understand why a company would go directly to the Purifi drivers for their reference model, that gives them and the buyer also the feeling they have gone for the best and the set is "consistent" which feeling is important for a high price buying decision. Also they offer lower range models and if they grow in future nobody hinders them to make a "2nd best" series with the drivers you mention for let's say one third lower total price.

 

[Purité Audio]

@Purité Audio what are the colors you will carry? I am seeing a lot of metallic options but will they still offer the plain unfinished white and green? The naming convention needs to be simplified I think. Can't wait to see the cardioid all purifi speakers. Those will be something special.

We will have the C6B in all four ‘self coloured’ versions, white/black modern and metallic grey, if you look back at the product lineup document
you can see there are custom colours available to special order for the waveguides and a choice of grill colour.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1q4okH9kfTbPCl9ug24c5gu9pXf5YKaOr/view.

The F6B/S only come in. black and white.

Purité Audio | Hi-Fi retailer | London,England

Purité Audio Hi-FI, Retailer, London, UK, Eversolo, Ascilab, Dutch&Dutch 8C,Sigberg Audio, KEF, GGNTKT, Mesanovic, RME, Benchmark, all our products are measurement led which means the finest possible sound quality. We install, acoustically measure and correct to ensure the finest possible sound...

www.puriteaudio.co.uk

Keith

 

[Sokel]

I doubt because at a certain point levels of distortion are not audible, Purifi is in this territory (because they are such well designed drivers I might add) … ASCI has the ability and opportunity to perform said blind testing, which given their superb engineering curiosity and ability, and desire to provide the most value to their customers, I suspect they would want to do. I do not have this capability, simple as that. Is it not the purpose of ASR to have such engineering discussions?

Distortion at speakers easily reaches and exceeds audibility limits.
Look at the sites who use multitone signals like Erin for example.

There's only a few that show very low distortion down low, specially when levels start to go serious.
Now that FSAF measurement has been offered by REW we will see far more data in this regard.

 

[JohnnyNG]

Actually I rather welcome these questions about our products. I can explain the advantages of our products thanks to those conversation.

Indeed. I think the gallery here provide a great foil for your expertise.

 

[MKR]

From one side I understand your questioning, especially when it comes to audibility between very low distortion drivers. On the other hand as you can imagine such is not easy at all to determine in blind listening as you would need to make everything else as close as possible, meaning to possibly design different waveguides, crossovers etc. Also I can fully understand why a company would go directly to the Purifi drivers for their reference model, that gives them and the buyer also the feeling they have gone for the best and the set is "consistent" which feeling is important for a high price buying decision. Also they offer lower range models and if they grow in future nobody hinders them to make a "2nd best" series with the drivers you mention for let's say one third lower total price.

Well said and agreed. No reason not to use Purifi in a reference model. Once again my only point is we are likely in diminishing returns territory here, I don’t think anyone would argue this. But as a “just in case” engineering solution, and if ya got the funds, no harm! Note I don’t thing the flagship model is available with less than Purifi, which is why I suggested to offer a lower cost version, but I could be wrong about that.