Ascend CMT-340 SE Center Channel Speaker Review

[raistlin65]

They are so darn delicate. The amps are just heavy. These things are like china as far as handling. And I have to take them down two sets of stairs to boot. Will happen one day though.

That Parasound Zamp V3 I sent you is really light (hint )

 

[spacevector]

They are so darn delicate. The amps are just heavy. These things are like china as far as handling. And I have to take them down two sets of stairs to boot. Will happen one day though.

May be you should install the NFS in your living room and entertain guests in the garage instead.

 

[bochoss]

UPDATE: Dave confirmed the Mains version is different, it doesn’t have the “Extended Baffle Compensation” and doesn’t rely as heavily on bass reinforcement, and is thus more linear.

Wow this is honestly pretty surprising. I assumed they were identical speakers.

Ascend's site has the exact same on-axis plot for the center and main versions:
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cmt340c/cmt340cmeas.html
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cmt340m/cmt340mmeas.html

That's pretty deceptive if true, and could possibly explain why I was never thrilled with these for LCR, although it's also likely due to inherent flaws of horizontal MTMs.

I did measure one of the main speakers to be pretty neutral on-axis, but I never tested the center. Guess I have some homework to do.

 

[MZKM]

Wow this is honestly pretty surprising. I assumed they were identical speakers.

Ascend's site has the exact same on-axis plot for the center and main versions:
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cmt340c/cmt340cmeas.html
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cmt340m/cmt340mmeas.html

That's pretty deceptive if true, and could possibly explain why I was never thrilled with these for LCR, although it's also likely due to inherent flaws of horizontal MTMs.

I did measure one of the main speakers to be pretty neutral on-axis, but I never tested the center. Guess I have some homework to do.

Yeah, and even the pictures of the crossovers are the same image file. I stated this in my email and he didn’t address it.

 

[ROOSKIE]

What you highlight is just one a many things Dave says is flawed with your review process and speaker rating. Before Dave posted his evaluation, I thought the process of using used speakers was seriously flawed. You have a uber-expensive analyzer and you test used speakers. This seems bizarre to me. As long as your process is flawed, expect some strong headwinds.

Well, yes if course used could be a problem and as well don't forget a manufacturer can cherry pick a speaker to send in. This method doesn't make that as possible. If a used speaker seems not to represent the norm than the manufacturer can surely find a way to step up and send one in.
At any rate much of the gear here has been new. Quite a bit of it.

 

[ROOSKIE]

I'm trying to understand how one recommends speakers without listening to them. It's clear recommending speakers and trashing certain speakers based on measurements is controversial... Just because you believe in this approach does not mean it is the correct approach.

As I see it, use the measurements as a starting point and see the recommendations as a thumbs up to try the speaker out. It is a way to hone in on a couple options through measurements and adjust final choices to taste.
Personal taste is not rejected here, it is however minor to the major factor of accurate sound being best confirmed through measurement.
Most here understand that other approaches exist, however this site is geared to be a measurement based source of review, thus gear better measure well. With regard to the goal of excellent measurement, certainly measurements as of now are not yet a complete story. There is more to learn and there is more than one opinion about how to interpret them.
You said earlier you would never buy based on measurements. I personally find nothing wrong with buying speakers for whatever reason, I literally could care less as long as the buyer (you or anyone) is happy. In the end nobody listens to measurements.
For myself these measurements are important because they help me find a speaker I like. I like measurements and I like the science of accurate sound. You might prefer something else, just know you are at a Radiohead concert trying to tell people that Thom York is a joke.

 

[MDINNO]

This is the first negative review I've ever heard of for Ascend speakers. Something needs to be said for old fashioned listening to a speaker and putting analytics aside. The 340SE and the 170SE models of Ascend are great speakers for the price. Hard to beat and the versatility of the 340SE and being able to use them as floor-standers also. Just my 2 cents.

 

[jonfitch]

Apart from the weird distortion spike with the RAAL tweeter, both Ascend products measure exactly as I would expect them to - which is pretty well, by the standards of nice-drivers-on-a-flat-baffle MT and MTM speakers.

MTMs don't work for center channels. They are not a hifi solution unless you are using a big waveguide between the woofers and even then it is bad solution. This one doesn't measure particularly badly or particularly well.

I don't see what all the fuss is about here.

Regarding the outrage over Amir testing used products, I would rather he test units which have been run in for a while, so that any problems that may manifest with time are shown (although I think modern drivers have few of these issues.)

I could take or leave Amir's listening impressions and the preference score, the latter of which ignores output capability (important) to my knowledge, but the data about frequency response and dispersion is a big resource which manufacturers almost never publish. Regarding that data, as I mentioned earlier, what we are seeing with this speaker is exactly as I would expect.

If you aren't designing waveguides or using other directivity control mechanisms such as cardioid or dipole loading this is what the responses basically look like.

Joseph D'appolito designed the modern MTM implementation, aka the D'appolito array, designs of which you can find today in Usher speakers. While Usher is not a perfect brand by any means, I think raising the tweeter is the only way to implement an MTM without a midrange and still managing to avoid most of the lobing pitfalls of an MTM design. The problem lies in the fact is many manufacturers are simultaneously trying to reduce size and reduce bill of materials.

 

[jonfitch]

Ahender, please let it go. As a fellow Ascend owner, you're making us look like fanatics. I understand wanting the products you own to look good - and the Sierra 2 (and subsequently the 2-EX presumably, which looks like you're purchasing) do pretty decent in the review. Just relax and enjoy your speakers. The data speaks for itself and I don't think even Dave disputes the facts. If you're happy with your purchase, that's what matters - there is no need for external validation.

Lol yes. I've owned every Ascend speaker, even the Sierra-EX Diamond with the $7k diamond tweeters. I grew up with Ascend speakers, they were my speakers in high school and college and I spent most of my summer job money on upgrading them after friends introduced the brand to me when I was 14. But I also have an intense interest in the science, and you have to realize at some point you are buying from a business, getting cultish obsessed with a brand will eventually bite you back when you realize it's going to be forever unrequited love that may result in a backstabbing from other cultists when you are no longer needed, just watch the current Administration

In my experience some of the Ascend-RAAL fanboys have crossed into dangerous territory that I usually only see with Dynaudio esotar "soft dome is best!" crazies that you see on AVS. A lot of times this isn't helped by the cult of personality revolving around certain manufacturers because of company's owners activity on certain forums.

 

[Jon AA]

A lot of times this isn't helped by the cult of personality revolving around certain manufacturers because of company's owners activity on certain forums.

I've seen that with a few brands lately. In one recent example, I noticed there's an owner of a different brand (not Ascend) who likes to post pages of flowery language that say nothing, but he throws enough "scientific sounding" terms in there to convince the uneducated that he "knows all the science" and has simply found it "lacking, inadequate or wrong" in various ways...so look to his flowery language for "the truth." And boy, do the owners of those speakers ever do that with a vengeance!

 

[617]

Joseph D'appolito designed the modern MTM implementation, aka the D'appolito array, designs of which you can find today in Usher speakers. While Usher is not a perfect brand by any means, I think raising the tweeter is the only way to implement an MTM without a midrange and still managing to avoid most of the lobing pitfalls of an MTM design. The problem lies in the fact is many manufacturers are simultaneously trying to reduce size and reduce bill of materials.


View attachment 60088

Not really. Here's how you can visualize this. Measure from the left edge of the left woofer to the right edge of the right woofer. Let's say the woofers aren't 7 inches, but 6, and to be generous, they are right next to each other, with no gap, which is the best case scenario. In the horizontal plane, this is still equivalent to a two way with a 1 inch dome tweeter and a 12 inch woofer, which has laughable directivity matching. It simply is not a hifi solution for the most important speaker in a av setup.

 

[jonfitch]

Not really. Here's how you can visualize this. Measure from the left edge of the left woofer to the right edge of the right woofer. Let's say the woofers aren't 7 inches, but 6, and to be generous, they are right next to each other, with no gap, which is the best case scenario. In the horizontal plane, this is still equivalent to a two way with a 1 inch dome tweeter and a 12 inch woofer, which has laughable directivity matching. It simply is not a hifi solution for the most important speaker in a av setup.

True, but I think that's why he uses does use 1.25" tweeters in his design, you give up high frequency dispersion in exchange for better directivity. Not saying it's comparable to a 3-way, just saying it's a more sane MTM design.

 

[Roen]

Lol yes. I've owned every Ascend speaker, even the Sierra-EX Diamond with the $7k diamond tweeters. I grew up with Ascend speakers, they were my speakers in high school and college and I spent most of my summer job money on upgrading them after friends introduced the brand to me when I was 14. But I also have an intense interest in the science, and you have to realize at some point you are buying from a business, getting cultish obsessed with a brand will eventually bite you back when you realize it's going to be forever unrequited love that may result in a backstabbing from other cultists when you are no longer needed, just watch the current Administration

In my experience some of the Ascend-RAAL fanboys have crossed into dangerous territory that I usually only see with Dynaudio esotar "soft dome is best!" crazies that you see on AVS. A lot of times this isn't helped by the cult of personality revolving around certain manufacturers because of company's owners activity on certain forums.

I feel like the RAAL fanboys (of which I am one of), have implicitly imposed the condition that verticality doesn't matter, negating one of the tweeters main flaws.

For me this is pretty true, the only time I care about how good the speaker sounds is when I am sitting in the MLP. If I move around, I stop caring about how ideal a speaker sounds.

 

[raistlin65]

I feel like the RAAL fanboys (of which I am one of), have implicitly imposed the condition that verticality doesn't matter, negating one of the tweeters main flaws.

For me this is pretty true, the only time I care about how good the speaker sounds is when I am sitting in the MLP. If I move around, I stop caring about how ideal a speaker sounds.

I don't think of it so much as a flaw, but a tradeoff. The tweeter has better than average horizontal dispersion. It depends on whether or not someone wants to privilege sitting up straight or slouching in the same chair, or moving right or left some at the same height on a sofa.

So the Raal tweeter will never do well with the Harman preference ratings, but it might fit a user's needs better than a higher rated speaker that has more directional horizontal performance.

 

[RMW_NJ]

Dave has launched another Klippel optimized revision, this time of the CMT-340. Currently on sale for $698/pair.

Background information here:

And here it is, the 340SE2!!!

Our CMT-340SE has long been one of our most revered products. First introduced back in late 2002, and then later upgraded to the SE version in 2006, our 340’s have remained extremely popular with a customer satisfaction rate averaging over 99%. It has been said by many that our 340’s are one...

forum.ascendacoustics.com

Full measurements here: https://ascendacoustics.com/collect...340se2-mini-tower-pair?variant=40521999646774

For someone looking for a reasonable HT, 5 of these appear like they’d be a pretty awesome start for less than $2K.

 

[tw 2022]

I feel like the RAAL fanboys (of which I am one of), have implicitly imposed the condition that verticality doesn't matter, negating one of the tweeters main flaws.

For me this is pretty true, the only time I care about how good the speaker sounds is when I am sitting in the MLP. If I move around, I stop caring about how ideal a speaker sounds.

fine point made...if you are critically listening the raal is a great option,once you stand up and move around (doing other things) you aren't critically listening any more... so, the vertical dispersion is not "a thing"...

 

[tw 2022]

I don't think of it so much as a flaw, but a tradeoff.

yes....

 

[aarons915]

I feel like the RAAL fanboys (of which I am one of), have implicitly imposed the condition that verticality doesn't matter, negating one of the tweeters main flaws.

For me this is pretty true, the only time I care about how good the speaker sounds is when I am sitting in the MLP. If I move around, I stop caring about how ideal a speaker sounds.

That's not why vertical response matters, even if you stand up you should still be in the +/- 10 degrees of coverage for a RAAL tweeter. The main issue is what it does to your ceiling and floor reflections, there is limited research that shows vertical reflections add to spaciousness. With a RAAL 64-10 tweeter, you're getting very strong sidewall reflections but much lower ceiling and floor reflections, some might prefer this.

Years ago I had the Polk monitor speakers and wanted to compare the Monitor 30 (2-way TM setup) to the Monitor 40 (MTM 2 way) and what I found was the MTM speaker sounded a bit more closed in and less open than the TM. I think the large null created in the 1-3k region of most MTM speakers makes them sound less natural to my ears so I avoid them unless they are a coaxial.

 

[tw 2022]

there is limited research that shows vertical reflections add to spaciousness. With a RAAL 64-10 tweeter, you're getting very strong sidewall reflections but much lower ceiling and floor reflections, some might prefer this.

there is this , but as you point out :much of the difference is preference , not as much "performance" , at least that's my understanding...

 

[aarons915]

there is this , but as you point out :much of the difference is preference , not as much "performance" , at least that's my understanding...

It is preference for sure but the majority have been shown to like spaciousness in music at least. I also personally think a speaker sounds better when it has a polar pattern that mimics real sounds and real sounds don't radiate widely in the horizontal plane but narrowly in the vertical, it just doesn't sound as natural.