Ascend CBM-170 SE Speaker Review

[flipflop]

Do you have any passive speaker recommendations?

Passive Speaker Recommendations for USA (by @sweetchaos)

I'm constantly asked which speakers to purchase...so, here you go! :D This guide is for PASSIVE speakers. For ACTIVE speakers go here. Click on the "Spoiler" buttons below to expand each section. Readme: Legend: Never Buy This Brand: Passive Bookshelf Speakers: Passive...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[jsilvela]

It sounds "detailed" to be sure but will give you a shave if you let it.

I had been using a CBM 170 as a center channel, vertically placed.
Recently I was doing some A/B tests with other speakers. Only the center channel on. A mono test, as Amir recommends.
Tremendous sibilance in speech with the CBM-170 compared with the others.
That "shave" comment smarted!! Fair.

 

[JonCr]

Does that mean you wouldn’t recommend the CBM 170 as a center channel? I had been considering one as a center as a bookshelf fits my setup better than a horizontal center.

 

[jsilvela]

Does that mean you wouldn’t recommend the CBM 170 as a center channel? I had been considering one as a center as a bookshelf fits my setup better than a horizontal center.

Well, hard to say. One thing Amir comments is that in a stereo or multi-channel setup, individual speaker shortcomings are less evident.
I used the CBM 170 as center a while, and I guess I got used to it.
Recently I decided to use a bookshelf speaker for a desktop mono setup.
I used the CBM 170 initially. Then I switched to one little Yamaha that came with a mini-hifi system that was my first system, in the 2000's.
And, the Yamaha was significantly less fatiguing... and also more compact and better looking.

But I don't see many bookshelf speakers sold individually.
Have you considered getting a stereo pair and using just one?
Alternatively, using a MTM center speaker and placing it vertically? Amir had this impressive review of a center he recommended to place vertically https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...v123-x-cs-encore-center-speaker-review.40156/

EDIT: no, this one was the MTM with a good review if used vertically https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/jbl-stage-125c-review-center-speaker.28613/

 

[JLGF1]

not sure what the woofer is (looks to be a well damped cone of some kind), vifa/peerless sub-20 dollar tweeter.

Original woofer strongly resembles a Hi-Vi variant.
The Audax [ed. not Vifa/Peerless] tweeter was Gen-1 (SEAS for Gen-2/SE).

I replaced both with SB-Acoustics drivers and encountered a remarkable improvement to my ears.

Side note: "made in the USA", in this context, means foreign components, with (presumably) USA made xover, assembled in the USA.

 

[AscendDF]

Original woofer strongly resembles a Hi-Vi variant.
The cheap Peerless tweeter was Gen-1 (SEAS for Gen-2/SE).

I replaced both with SB-Acoustics drivers and encountered a remarkable improvement to my ears.

Side note: "made in the USA", in this context, means foreign components, with (presumably) USA made xover, assembled in the USA.

Jerry,

We already went through this issue on AVS 2 months ago, why are you repeating this after I already corrected you? You are simply revealing either your own ignorance or stubbornness, or do you have ulterior motives? I suggest you stop now and I know you read my response on AVS because you responded.

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/the-official-ascend-acoustics-sierra-thread.849859/page-364#post-62803231

No, we have never used any Peerless or Peerless India tweeter in any of our products. The tweeter in your original CBM-170 was a custom model made for us by Audax in France based on the renowned TM025F1, a very highly regarded tweeter which retails for about $40 euro. Seriously, isn't it obvious? You posted a pic of the back of your 170 tweeter on AVS which clearly indicates both the model number of the tweeter and "MADE IN FRANCE". You would think you would know this by simply googling the model number printed on your tweeter, or I would think "Made in France" would, at a minimum, clearly indicate it isn't Peerless.

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/the-official-ascend-acoustics-sierra-thread.849859/page-364#post-62803037

We have also never used any HiVi products in any of our speakers. The woofer in the CBM-170SE is 100% designed by me, from the basket frame to the cone material, to the complete motor assembly, and no, it isn't manufactured by HiVi. I am not even sure if HiVi was a company back when I made this woofer.

The woofer in the original CBM-170 was an Audax Aerogel model, an extremely high performance and highly regarded woofer. It is the same as this:

Audax HM170Z18 6.5" Woofer Aerogel Cone

Audax HM170Z18 6.5" Woofer Aerogel Cone. Premium woofer driver in stock. Expert advice on enclosures and amplification. Contact Madisound.

www.madisoundspeakerstore.com

But we reduced the manufacturing cost by going with a glass-fiber basket instead of the cast aluminum frame and replacing the rubber phase plug with a plastic one. And just like the Audax tweeter, the model number is clearly printed on the sticker on the label, and you will notice it is essentially the same model number as the woofer I linked to except for the last few digits.

In addition, we have never once stated anywhere that our CBM-170 or CBM-170SE are "Made in the USA". We indicate it is "Designed, Engineered and Assembled In the USA", as fully indicated on our website, on the label on the back of your speakers and even on the shipping box. We use components sourced and manufactured from all over the world.

I strongly suggest you stop attempting to disparage my company by continually posting false information, you are just making yourself look foolish.

 

[JLGF1]

My mistake on the Audax; I keep thinking it was a Vifa/Peerless. I stand corrected and you can calm down now, Dave.

No, I missed your 170 post on AVS where we were discussing the Sierra-1. Thanks for the Sierra-1 Klippel measurements. Are you thinking of measuring the CBM-170?

I'm not clear how you came to the conclusion that I am "disparaging" your company? Because I point out where the Gen-1 drivers might be improved? If that weren't the case there wouldn't have been evolving generations of Ascend speakers would there? Such as a replacement for the "revered" Audax tweeter to produce the 170-SE (SEAS tweeter) and the Sierra-2 SEAS Curve woofers being supplanted by other SEAS models, etc. when the EX appeared?

As far as looking foolish, the 170 received a poor review (ie not recommended) at ASR despite the marketing hype. That has nothing to do with me. That was where the "Made in USA" was mentioned several times by others (see post #1). I'm not allowed to clarify that?

 

[JLGF1]

Correct, I did post that I replaced one pair of original CBM-170 tweeters (left) with the SEAS tweeters (right).

With the other 170 pair, I replaced the tweeters with an SB-Acoustics model where the dispersion improvement was much better than I anticipated (as their reviews stated).

 

[Beave]

When you're changing tweeters on these speakers, how are you making the necessary crossover changes to accommodate the new part (with different sensitiity, impedance, etc)?

 

[tw 2022]

When you're changing tweeters on these speakers, how are you making the necessary crossover changes to accommodate the new part (with different sensitiity, impedance, etc)?

It's been established elsewhere that he isn't....

 

[Beave]

Yikes!

 

[JLGF1]

It's been established elsewhere that he isn't....

Actually, it hasn't. When I was swarmed over at AVS by the g-squad (someone else's characterization by PM) I never indicated that. So, please speak for yourself.

 

[JLGF1]

to accommodate the new part (with different sensitiity, impedance,

Assuming you mean sensitivity, all of those parameters are on the driver's spec sheet.

Are you aware that Madisound will build custom xovers for the drivers they sell? Apparently, TW-2022 is not.

 

[AdamG]

Let’s all put down the Coffee and take a few deep breaths and not be so abrasive with our fellow ASR members.

Please and thank you for your support and cooperation.

 

[Beave]

Assuming you mean sensitivity, all of those parameters are on the driver's spec sheet.

Are you aware that Madisound will build custom xovers for the drivers they sell? Apparently, TW-2022 is not.

View attachment 326171

So you provided them with dimensions of the baffle? What crossover frequency and slope/order did you request, or did they decide that?

Did you also adjust the LPF crossover on the midwoofer to make sure the there aren't any phase problems between the two drivers in the crossover region?

 

[AscendDF]

Actually, it hasn't. When I was swarmed over at AVS by the g-squad (someone else's characterization by PM) I never indicated that. So, please speak for yourself.


View attachment 326190

Those crossovers are not from Madisound, those are our Sierra-2EX crossovers. Are you attempting to use these crossovers in your CBM-170?

 

[AscendDF]

Assuming you mean sensitivity, all of those parameters are on the driver's spec sheet.

Are you aware that Madisound will build custom xovers for the drivers they sell? Apparently, TW-2022 is not.

View attachment 326171

A crossover can never be designed based on driver specifications. Proper crossover design requires a complete anechoic frequency response measurement of each individual driver within the cabinet they are being used in, as well as full impedance measurement and phase.

 

[JLGF1]

Those crossovers are not from Madisound, those are our Sierra-2EX crossovers. Are you attempting to use these crossovers in your CBM-170?

No, I used those to upgrade my Sierra-1's. There's more than one way to buy crossovers and I didn't acquire those from Madisound (obviously). I just wanted to assuage those losing sleep over my xover issue. The open hostility is not appreciated, not a good look, and hopefully will not be tolerated at ASR like it is other places.

 

[JLGF1]

A crossover can never be designed based on driver specifications. Proper crossover design requires a complete anechoic frequency response measurement of each individual driver within the cabinet they are being used in, as well as full impedance measurement and phase.

Thanks, but I really wasn't asking for opinions. And as you can imagine, I'm sorry I even brought it up. AFAIK, no one is being forced to do the same.

 

[Beave]