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Ascend Acoustics Owners' Lounge
- Thread starter PristineSound
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Yep! He’s done with his subjective/objective analysis. Review is “Coming soon!” from his latest Patreon post (15 minutes ago). They are on their way back to California
Really looking forward to this review
Guddu
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Well I’m in California, but yes, that too. They are making a stop back to their birthplace in Orange County.
OP
PristineSound
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- #66
Well that's not good news.
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PristineSound
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- #67
Well, the LX review is out:
That suck out at 3kHz is much more, about 2 to 3 dB more than Ascend's own measurements. Erin complains of distortion, I did not notice any distortion when I own them, but I don't play loud. And Ascend does not publish distortion data. The compression seems pretty significant.
That suck out at 3kHz is much more, about 2 to 3 dB more than Ascend's own measurements. Erin complains of distortion, I did not notice any distortion when I own them, but I don't play loud. And Ascend does not publish distortion data. The compression seems pretty significant.
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PristineSound
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- #68
And btw, according to @Wg916 these are going to Ascend first before they go back to him. I hope Dave does some investigation on the distortion and compression issue.
@Wg916 how loud do you play them? Maybe you damaged the drivers?
If Dave finds that these speakers have issues, I would love for Dave to send a new pair to Erin for re-review. Mostly because the LX woofers has never been publicly measured by a third party.
Am kinda shocked mainly because of the discrepancies between what is being sold and the pair Erin got, and measured. Also, a sensitivity of 81 dB is lame. I assume Dave designed them that way for the sake of reaching a nice low end and other goals. Due to the circumstances I give Dave the benefit of the doubt.
Me? I would only buy a 2 way bookshelf speaker with the intent to match it with 1 or more subs....don't care how low it goes. There's only so much clean bass you're gonna get out of a 6" speaker as it just doesn't have the Sd to push much air...... even if the excursion is long throw.
Me? I would only buy a 2 way bookshelf speaker with the intent to match it with 1 or more subs....don't care how low it goes. There's only so much clean bass you're gonna get out of a 6" speaker as it just doesn't have the Sd to push much air...... even if the excursion is long throw.
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I play around 75-83dbA from about 9ft. I have run into that audible distortion issue that I believe Erin refers to, which also made me at one point question whether I had done anything to damage the speaker (by overdriving them). I’ve mentioned this in a post somewhere. I should also state that I have run them at times in “full range” but mostly with them crossed over at 80hz with an SVS-3000. The distortion was significantly lower and perhaps not really a factor in the latter setup.
The overdriven argument does seem to be a bit moot though, as the mid drivers were replaced with new ones by Erin himself prior to his final review and measurements (I’ve never heard them myself, but Erin’s measurement of them show they are much better than the original ones). I suppose that still leaves the specter of the possibility of crossover damage?
My listening habits overall are pretty sane though. These aren’t my main speakers (my 8361as fill that role), so not even a lot of hours put on them. They were purchased in February of this year I believe, and sent to Erin around the end of June.
I do believe Dave’s intent is to measure the speakers using his own equipment. From what I gather, though, he is primarily trying to get down to the bottom of the high treble discrepancy.
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Guddu
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I really think its very unlikely that speaker gets damaged with just this much, but nothing is impossible.
The distortion you mentioned, was it there or observed when got these on week 1?
Audible distortion is quite unpleasant and normally any experienced listener would realize it sooner than later. Among many owners, including myself, I don't think I have read anyone complaining this.
This is probably a good thing that it goes back to Dave for investigation.
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PristineSound
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- #72
If Dave doesn't plan to measure the distortion and compression, then does that imply that these are known design issues?
And if they are known designed issues, then the question is are they a result of the drivers used? If so, these drivers are used in many of their lines including the ELX. I have not drive the ELX hard, so I don't hear any distortions. But I might have to drive them hard to test for distortions.
I can't imagine the issue to be with the crossover, the only other thing is maybe the cabinet is causing distortions, but would that explain the compression issues?
I hope Dave gives an update after he examines these LX speakers.
Pareto Pragmatic
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Good question. On mine the driver screws loosened during early play, as they tend to do on many speakers, and I heard distortion after a few weeks of listening. Tightening them cleaned things up. I just checked, they are still tight.
I am not saying that is what people are hearing, but anyone should check if they haven't. On any new speaker after a month or so.
I can't recall when I heard it first, but I think it was somewhere within the first few weeks of ownership. Let me backtrack.. so according to my Gmail, I actually got the speakers on March 26th (not February as I previously mentioned). I purchased a DDRC-24 from Mort around the end of April. Somewhere around that one month period while I was running them full range, I noticed the distortion-related SPL limitation. I do remember the song I first noticed it on too. it was the first minute of "Veto" by Sohn and I recall it was around 82-85dbA @ 9ft. Would you want to try to replicate this? I don't really know the volume of my room, so I'm not sure how much how useful it would be in the end.
After applying an 80hz crossover, I did not notice that issue and the speakers could go much louder without audible distortion, but I haven't pushed them to the limit so I'm not sure where that limit is.
I should point out, however, that I am not a trained listener, and I realize the limitations of my anecdotal experiences.
I did check the screws at one point. They were all tight. I knew to do this because I had a loose screw issue in the past with my Klipsch RP-8000F IIs that resulted in some unpleasant rattling.
To me, the LXs sound amazing. I have used many passive bookshelves in that same space and the LX, and to me were distinctly better than all of them at least when ran at full range (however you want to define the subjective "better" and actually maybe tied with BMR monitors). Speakers include: BMR Monitor V2, KEF R3 Meta, KEF LSX LT, KEF LS50 Meta, KEF LS50 Wireless II, Klipsch RP-600 II, Elac DBR-62, Elac DB-63.
What you are calling "known design issues" could also be called "known design tradeoffs."
The "issues" are with multitone distortion at the upper end of the woofer's response region before it crosses to the tweeter.
In the ELX, the woofers are crossed over much lower to a dedicated midrange, so they aren't playing at all in that region.
I wouldn't call it a suckout so much as a dip, one that is at least partly intentional, as it occurs in exactly the same region as where the off axis response broadens. So it acts to counter the broadening radiation there to give a more neutral sound power response.
(Ideally, one would want the on axis there to be flat, and the off axis response there not to widen, but that would require significant cabinet changes and/or a waveguide and/or turning the speaker into a three way with a small midrange driver, ie, an entirely different and more expensive speaker.)
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OP
PristineSound
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- #77
Yes, you're right, it's multitone distortion.
I have to say when I own the LX, I heard zero distortions, but again, I don't push them hard, trying to conserve my hearing as much as I can, so I can be in this hobby for as long as I can.
ELX/RAAL towers
Being a little skeptical of the bass output from the small 6" Seas woofers, I disconnected my two 15" (sealed) subs and fired up my new ELX/RAAL towers full range, stereo, with bass heavy music. Measured around 78-84 dB SPL, 11 1/2' away from my easy chair. Home theater is large - 17.5 X 27.5 X 9', opening up into a hallway that terminates to a small room. Considering the little Seas woofers, was surprised to hear a rather deep, rich sound... nice tight bass with the little woofer cones flopping like fish out of water. Incredible excursion! CD's were Basia, Dire Straits, Fourplay.
I then added the subs and the overall sound was much fuller. Mine are crossed over to the ELX's at 60 Hz, 24 dB slope. Having said that, the ELX is NOT a full range speaker IMO. Comes close, but not quite. Like bookshelf and most tower speakers it could use quality subs, especially for movies. There's only so much air you can move with such small drivers.
Change gears....... Ottmar Liebert's guitar never sounded so crisp and lifelike. The "cleanliness" and dynamics are superb with the ELX. The song "Calling Elvis" by Dire Straits hits with a WHACK regarding the snare drum attacks, guitar licks. Voices are unreal, imaging is excellent i.e. the bold rich voice of Basia.
FWIW, with the exception of the subs, all my Dolby Atmos home theater 11 speakers are driven by the internal amps of an Anthem AVX 1140. ELX towers are easy to drive to very high volumes with no discernible distortion. Very clean.
Being a little skeptical of the bass output from the small 6" Seas woofers, I disconnected my two 15" (sealed) subs and fired up my new ELX/RAAL towers full range, stereo, with bass heavy music. Measured around 78-84 dB SPL, 11 1/2' away from my easy chair. Home theater is large - 17.5 X 27.5 X 9', opening up into a hallway that terminates to a small room. Considering the little Seas woofers, was surprised to hear a rather deep, rich sound... nice tight bass with the little woofer cones flopping like fish out of water. Incredible excursion! CD's were Basia, Dire Straits, Fourplay.
I then added the subs and the overall sound was much fuller. Mine are crossed over to the ELX's at 60 Hz, 24 dB slope. Having said that, the ELX is NOT a full range speaker IMO. Comes close, but not quite. Like bookshelf and most tower speakers it could use quality subs, especially for movies. There's only so much air you can move with such small drivers.
Change gears....... Ottmar Liebert's guitar never sounded so crisp and lifelike. The "cleanliness" and dynamics are superb with the ELX. The song "Calling Elvis" by Dire Straits hits with a WHACK regarding the snare drum attacks, guitar licks. Voices are unreal, imaging is excellent i.e. the bold rich voice of Basia.
FWIW, with the exception of the subs, all my Dolby Atmos home theater 11 speakers are driven by the internal amps of an Anthem AVX 1140. ELX towers are easy to drive to very high volumes with no discernible distortion. Very clean.
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PristineSound
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- #79
Yes, almost no speakers are truly full range, a subwoofer is mandatory for nearly all speakers.
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PristineSound
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- #80
Dave's most recent comment on Erin's review of the LX. I have my opinions on it, but you should read it to form your own opinions.
Edit: The one question that I have is why is Erin complaining about the upper mid range's attack, clarity and detail where the 3kHz dip is only about 2dB and this speaker is incredibly more neutral than other speakers he's reviewed where he didn't pointed out non on-axis linearity irregularities.
Edit: The one question that I have is why is Erin complaining about the upper mid range's attack, clarity and detail where the 3kHz dip is only about 2dB and this speaker is incredibly more neutral than other speakers he's reviewed where he didn't pointed out non on-axis linearity irregularities.
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