As the artist intended it...

[PierreV]

I am going to be a bit vague here so there is hopefully no risk of identification... So please forgive me in advance.

This Sunday, I bumped into a musician/composer at a social event. I've heard him play in the past and he has a professional relation with a friend. So we start chatting a bit about music.
While the guy isn't a very big name in contemporary classical composition, he isn't a nobody either as several recordings of his works have been released internationally on well-known (if there is such a thing today) classical labels.

"Have you heard my new symphony? Its premiere received a lot of praises."

I had not, but told him I had heard about the praise. (I had not, but why not make him happy, you know how artists are sometimes )

"It will be released on CD soon"

I congratulate him and talk a bit about the recording process. He prefers natural sounding recordings. So far so good. Then...

"I was so worried when I heard the recording in the studio for the first time! I did not like it. But then I went to a friend who has a "reference tube amplifier" and I was extremely happy at what I heard"

Just to be polite I then asked which brand of amplifier/tube it was.

"Oh, I have no idea, I am not technical at all. But you should use _reference tubes_ to truly enjoy my work."

In a way I was thinking "Oh, no, not again and cut the conversation short".

But then, do I want to listen to the work as it was intended to be heard?
There definitely is no ground truth in this hobby.

(and no, I will not go and buy reference tubes)

 

[womanofscience666]

My assumption would be that he is used to hearing natural timbre in a room and found that those "reference tubes" reproduced the timbre in a way that sounded natural and realistic to him which is often the praise tube amps get

 

[Gregss]

I am going to be a bit vague here so there is hopefully no risk of identification... So please forgive me in advance.

This Sunday, I bumped into a musician/composer at a social event. I've heard him play in the past and he has a professional relation with a friend. So we start chatting a bit about music.
While the guy isn't a very big name in contemporary classical composition, he isn't a nobody either as several recordings of his works have been released internationally on well-known (if there is such a thing today) classical labels.

"Have you heard my new symphony? Its premiere received a lot of praises."

I had not, but told him I had heard about the praise. (I had not, but why not make him happy, you know how artists are sometimes )

"It will be released on CD soon"

I congratulate him and talk a bit about the recording process. He prefers natural sounding recordings. So far so good. Then...

"I was so worried when I heard the recording in the studio for the first time! I did not like it. But then I went to a friend who has a "reference tube amplifier" and I was extremely happy at what I heard"

Just to be polite I then asked which brand of amplifier/tube it was.

"Oh, I have no idea, I am not technical at all. But you should use _reference tubes_ to truly enjoy my work."

In a way I was thinking "Oh, no, not again and cut the conversation short".

But then, do I want to listen to the work as it was intended to be heard?
There definitely is no ground truth in this hobby.

(and no, I will not go and buy reference tubes)

Hello,

Some like having tube (distortion) added. No sweat as they can like what they like. Many if not most of us want to here the music exactly as the artist and their engineer recorded it. You can always add distortion to taste, but unless you want it in EVERYTHING you play, getting it from your amp is not a good idea. IMHO

Greg

 

[olieb]

My guess is, that his impressions have no connection to "tubes or not" at all.
He did not like the recording in the studio (not his normal place to listen, I suppose) and liked it in a listening (living) room.
The difference in acoustics will probably trump the difference in amplifiers by several magnitudes.

 

[tmtomh]

Sounds like the artist preferred the sound played over his friend's tube amp, and his friend's speakers, in his friend's room/space, over the sound played over all the equipment and speakers in the recording or mastering studio.

And in response to that, the artist did not feel like he wanted, or feasibly could, go back to ask for changes to the mastering, so instead recommended a particular kind of tube or tube amp based on his experience.

The important thing to remember here is that it's not just that we can have no idea from this about whether we'd hear what the artist intended with any given playback system - but we also cannot conclude that the artist himself would feel his intention was or was not fulfilled with any given playback system. The reason is that no one, including the artist, actually knows what factor or factors were specifically responsible for the different listening experiences he had in the studio and at his friend's place.

 

[Marc v E]

There is a ground truth, but we -I for certain- are easily misled by the room it's played in, the looks of the kit and the sound character we're used to.

Ime when playing from a well executed monitor/transducer, it becomes apparent what is correct and what not. The unfortunate truth is that our ears and brains are just not as good as we think they are in remembering and descerning sound quality, when we hear the same track played over another system.

If I hear such as story I'm usually quite amused. The same happens with food, financial insights, falling in love, you name it.

 

[DVDdoug]

I'd say "as intended" is what you hear in the studio. You can get that with a treated room (and good speakers).

Or a symphony should be as heard in a concert hall. The only way you'll get close to concert hall sound at home is with surround sound.

In the "big music business' (whatever remains of it) the artist usually has very little say in what the final mix sounds like.

I mostly listen to classic rock and I like to use a hall or theater setting on my AVR for some delayed reverb in the rear and the "feel" of a bigger space. So I'm NOT listening as intended, except I do have a shelf-full of concert DVDs and most of those have 5.1 surround so I can listen to those as intended.

Sometimes I listen "loud" but I don't listen at "realistic volumes". I wouldn't actually want an orchestra or rock band in my living room, even if they would fit!

 

[Chr1]

Also, tubes and voiced (vs flat) speakers, like EQ are often used to enhance the sound of the recording to personal taste. Not the highest fidelity strictly speaking but can seem to improve the sound. Presumably what he heard in the studio was via a transparent, very accurate system, used for trueness to the source tracks. Most likely studio monitors EQd for the room only. ie without personal home audio enhancements ala your friends rig.
Enhanced sound vs accurate sound.

Not entirely sure what "reference" tubes are tho.

 

[MattHooper]

I’m with some others here: I highly doubt that musicians perception had a lot to do with the tube amplification. The tube amplifier was altering the sound at all, it was likely very subtle. so I think all the other factors that have been mentioned, different room, different speakers, different listening situation, and any bias effects, are more likely why he was more satisfied.

I use tube amplifiers, and musicians such as my brother and other friends bring their finished albums, or even different masters they are trying to decide between, which they listen to on my system. I don’t think the tube amplification makes a difference either way: we tend to be listening to any number of factors about the music the performance the mixing the mastering the general details of the recording, all of which are there whatever amplifier is being used.

 

[Chr1]

Obviously, room acoustics are a significant factor. This is always the case though surely.
If we are trying to discern why there was a preference, all things need to be considered. I would suggest that the use of valves and speaker choice are both pretty important factors too.

In this day and age, I don't see any reason why anyone would actually choose to use tubes, except to enhance the sound to their taste. (Winter heating and pleasant aesthetics aside obviously!)
However, surely any such enhancements, be they via the use of valves, speaker voicing or even EQ, should always be subtle.
Anything else is straying from high fidelity. YMMV.

Anyhoo, personally I reckon all of these things played into the OPs musician/composer friends personal preference. Worth mentioning that, speakers/room aside, plenty of musicians/composers, and engineers will choose to incorporate these kinds of enhancements into the actual sound being recorded. Most likely not so common in classical music however, and/or perhaps the person in question just left all production up to the engineers in the studio. In many genres it is actually a big part of the composition/art. My 2c.

 

[holdingpants01]

Musicians aren't usually really responsible for the sound of the finished recording so I would take their opinion with a big grain of salt. Also keep in mind he only said he heard it at his friend home and in the studio, it's quite probable he doesn't even have any hifi equipment at his place, I work with musicians and it's extremely common. A big part of my work is listening to and digitalising vinyl test presses, just because almost no musician or label owns a record player connected to anything remotely good

 

[Waxx]

A lot of classical musicians that i know have very coloured systems at home. It makes them enjoy the music better. But there are also a lot who like the clean sounding speakers, it's a matter of personal taste.

And it's true that not the tube amp will make all the difference, it's the total setting. Studio's tend to have a very dry sound, so the engineer can hear what he/she does. A typical listening room have a lot more room sound, just like a concert hall, and so is closer to what the musician is used to. That is also why a lot of classical music is recorded in concert halls or churches, not in studio's.

And musicians hear a concert they play very different than you, the public as they mostly have no monitoring at all and are sitting in the orchestra place with very different acoustics than where the public sits. The conductor may have an id what you hear, but not the musicians while playing