As promised some Goldmund Reference photos from when I last serviced it. Too much tech alert!

[Frank Dernie]

The pictures are not in any chosen order, just the one the software chose when I loaded them.

This is the base with the isolation suspension and the leveling adjusters poking out, the big knurled rings adjust the base height of the isolator.

This is the cast "subchassis" with subplatter still in place and speed sensor cable. It has a cutout for mounting a pivoted arm and holes to clamp their own parallel tracker in place.

This is the motor controller which is normally suspended under the base stand.

This is the T3F parallel tracking arm the shorter arm to its side holds a sensor used by the arm controller to move the pivot to keep the arm parallel. Most parallel trackers use the cartridge to keep the arm parallel which has the side effect of a high lateral effective mass, which more than negates the benefit of parallel tracking because it still has the reduced distortion but the sum channel bass response is inaccurate (ie it is excessive so many may well like it!).

This is the bottom of the motor carrier. The 3 spikes are threaded so one can level and adjust the height of the motor pulley. It is a big block of bronze and very heavy indeed.

Top of the motor carrier showing pulley. The motor looks like a normal Philips syncronous one to me.

Back of the arm assembly showing the controil motor, the scarily tiny-wired harness and the Lemo cartridge connectors and the connector for the controller.

Bottom view of cast Subchassis.

Main bearing. This was modified over the life of the design. This unit was Goldmund Europe's demonstrator so had the latest mods. the large diameter at the top forms an oil reservoir from which the small hole allows oil to circulate down to the area between the two bushings.

This is the inside of the motor controller box.

These are the 3 receptacles for the cones on the motor mount. They are eccentric and set into the top plate such that one can rotate them thereby moving the whole motor assembly to set belt tension.

The assembled TT without the cover on the arm traverse which vibrates and affects the cartridge output, so I remove it for listening.

The subchassis is bolted to the top of the isolators and the weights which sit on each tower have a felt disc but are calibrated to tune the isolator suspension.

Turntable with platter removed. The platter is so heavy that the suspension extension almost pulls the belt off its pulley when it is removed.

Playing a record, it is obvious I am going to have to replace a bulb in the display at the next service (I didn't have a bulb when I did this one).

Platter. It is an acrylic/bronze/acrylic sandwich and very heavy. The top is very slightly conical with the centre about 1mm lower than the periphery. When the clamp is fitted this pulls slight warps to flat.
Being a bit obsessive I "level" the subchassis such that it is slightly cocked over to one side such that the bit of platter under the arm trajectory is horizontal.

 

[BDWoody]

What does that beast weigh Frank? Thank you for posting these! Very cool...

 

[tomtoo]

Industrial Quality PCB and nice cabling work!

Dont know if it sounds better, but it looks the hell of professional. At least you know where your money went in.

 

[Frank Dernie]

What does that beast weigh Frank? Thank you for posting these! Very cool...

I certainly couldn't lift the whole thing.
The base table is a 600x530x45mm slab of ally with a steel frame bolted to it to give the classic Goldmund "mechanical grounding", (if you believe that works, I don't) that calculates to weigh about 37kg, the platter is about 20kg iirc the subchassis is pretty heavy too, I'd guess the whole thing between 75 and 125 kg probably, or 150 to 250 lbs.
One good thing about the heavy sub-chassis and platter is that the spring system suitable to isolate it is relatively stiff from a handling pov so doesn't feel as weird to use as a properly isolated light weight TT.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Industrial Quality PCB and nice cabling work!

Dont know if it sounds better, but it looks the hell of professional. At least you know where your money went in.

Indeed it was much more expensive than most others when it came out but from an engineer's perspective it is easy to see why.
It does beg the question "is it worth it?" well it is certainly the best engineered TT I know of, though there are probably others, particularly nowadays, which have prettier machining.
One could argue that the SQ potential of LP is so limited it is difficult but worth getting at all of it?????

 

[tomtoo]

Indeed it was much more expensive than most others when it came out but from an engineer's perspective it is easy to see why.
It does beg the question "is it worth it?" well it is certainly the best engineered TT I know of, though there are probably others, particularly nowadays, which have prettier machining.
One could argue that the SQ potential of LP is so limited it is difficult but worth getting at all of it?????

Well you can see it as a peace of engineering Art. And we all know if it comes to Art, a question like "Is it worth it?" is maybe not quite right?
HeHe i understand if people like engineering art. Couse i like it too.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Well you can see it as a peace of engineering Art. And we all know if it comes to Art, a question like "Is it worth it?" is maybe not quite right?

When it was designed the question it addressed was how to best ameliorate the shortcomings of LPs in an engineering way. I am sure they wanted it to look nice but it was form following function, unlike nowadays where IMO, the vast majority are little more than a styling exercise linked to pseudo engineering BS marketing, usually using easy for the layman to understand (but wrong) static explanations of how it works.
It came out in 1983 and they made 300.
The company used specialists for the analysis and design of the engineering functions.
There have been other SOTA attempts since but none IMHO has as good a balance of solutions (it is impossible to optimise everything in a TT since some things are mutually exclusive).

 

[Frank Dernie]

Found this which gives some weights

 

[tomtoo]

When it was designed the question it addressed was how to best ameliorate the shortcomings of LPs in an engineering way. I am sure they wanted it to look nice but it was form following function, unlike nowadays where IMO, the vast majority are little more than a styling exercise linked to pseudo engineering BS marketing, usually using easy for the layman to understand (but wrong) static explanations of how it works.
It came out in 1983 and they made 300.
The company used specialists for the analysis and design of the engineering functions.
There have been other SOTA attempts since but none IMHO has as good a balance of solutions (it is impossible to optimise everything in a TT since some things are mutually exclusive).

When it was designed the question it addressed was how to best ameliorate the shortcomings of LPs in an engineering way. I am sure they wanted it to look nice but it was form following function, unlike nowadays where IMO, the vast majority are little more than a styling exercise linked to pseudo engineering BS marketing, usually using easy for the layman to understand (but wrong) static explanations of how it works.
It came out in 1983 and they made 300.
The company used specialists for the analysis and design of the engineering functions.
There have been other SOTA attempts since but none IMHO has as good a balance of solutions (it is impossible to optimise everything in a TT since some things are mutually exclusive).

It's like mechanical chronometers, you could see the engineering. Today? You can't see which technologie a chip uses. Is it x or y nanometers? Much to far away for haptic or seeing.

 

[sergeauckland]

Very interesting Frank, and almost the opposite in engineering to my AEG and EMT turntables. The AEG especially has a very light platter, only a few hundred grams, but under the control of a fairly powerful motor, so it starts instantly (reaches full W&F spec in about a quarter revolution). The EMT is slightly slower, it takes about a third of a revolution to reach spec, and it has a heavier platter, Actually the platter itself weighs next to nothing, it's the very thick and heavy mat that has the weight.

Having been used to turntables that have effectively instant start, I now can't bring myself to lower the stylus onto a moving record, it always seems so risky compared with lowering the stylus onto the stationary LP, then pressing start.

I do like the construction of your motor controller box, very similar to mine, albeit mine are on separate cards in a card-cage. By the way, I'm surprised that a company like Goldmund didn't include a SOTA phono stage. Both the AEG and EMT have their own phono stage in the card cage.

Don't you have an EMT 950 yourself?

S.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Very interesting Frank, and almost the opposite in engineering to my AEG and EMT turntables. The AEG especially has a very light platter, only a few hundred grams, but under the control of a fairly powerful motor, so it starts instantly (reaches full W&F spec in about a quarter revolution). The EMT is slightly slower, it takes about a third of a revolution to reach spec, and it has a heavier platter, Actually the platter itself weighs next to nothing, it's the very thick and heavy mat that has the weight.

Having been used to turntables that have effectively instant start, I now can't bring myself to lower the stylus onto a moving record, it always seems so risky compared with lowering the stylus onto the stationary LP, then pressing start.

I do like the construction of your motor controller box, very similar to mine, albeit mine are on separate cards in a card-cage. By the way, I'm surprised that a company like Goldmund didn't include a SOTA phono stage. Both the AEG and EMT have their own phono stage in the card cage.

Don't you have an EMT 950 yourself?

S.

I forget the model number of my EMT but it is a lower spec than the 950.
Fast start turntables were not very common outside broadcast studios in 1983!
My EMT has rudimentary suspension but a rack of impressive electronics.
I always wait for stable speed before lowering the stylus.
The Goldmund Europe people I bought mine from when Goldmund stopped production left it running all the time so lots of record/platter skidding!

 

[Frank Dernie]

The AEG especially has a very light platter, only a few hundred grams, but under the control of a fairly powerful motor, so it starts instantly (reaches full W&F spec in about a quarter revolution). The EMT is slightly slower, it takes about a third of a revolution to reach spec, and it has a heavier platter, Actually the platter itself weighs next to nothing, it's the very thick and heavy mat that has the weight.

Reflecting on this Serge I should add that having a big inertia in the platter is a simple, if expensive, way to reduce speed fluctuation due to imperfectly constant motor torque but, of course, wouldn't be necessary if the torque is constant. I am not sure how constant torque is on all the various different drive systems, or how audible a fluctuation one gets from inevitably imperfect servo speed control.
I know it is old technology but I am still not at all convinced that anything is better than a straightforward synchronous motor as long as both bearing drag and the supply frequency are steady. Not much use for instant start though!
A direct drive motor makes sense from a mechanical simplicity pov but the electronic and electrical engineering required to make sure there are no torque fluctuations must be a bit special (though I say this as a mechanical engineer whose knowledge of electronics is what I learned using measurement and designing transducers).
The old Connoiseur BD-1 was delightfully simple and hard to fault on engineering grounds even though on marketing and styling it was basic, at best.

 

[Andysu]

goldmund audio is Meh, Snake Oil audio

 

[Frank Dernie]

goldmund audio is Meh, Snake Oil audio

This is a vintage TT.
The fact is 40 years ago Goldmund were more technologically competent on the transducer side, record players and speakers, than most others.
Their electronics was all done to measure well also.
I have no idea about now, their stuff is far too expensive nowadays, but certainly at the HiFi News show I went to, the last before lockdown, the little Goldmund room had the most realistic sound of all that I listened to in the show using their wireless DSP active speakers.
The only snake oil I have seen from them is the usual cable bollox.

 

[sadartmouth]

This is a vintage TT.
The fact is 40 years ago Goldmund were more technologically competent on the transducer side, record players and speakers, than most others.
Their electronics was all done to measure well also.
I have no idea about now, their stuff is far too expensive nowadays, but certainly at the HiFi News show I went to, the last before lockdown, the little Goldmund room had the most realistic sound of all that I listened to in the show using their wireless DSP active speakers.
The only snake oil I have seen from them is the usual cable bollox.

Hi:

I am new to this forum. I have a Goldmund Reference turnable. The motor does not work well. I am looking for a replacement. So far, Goldmund technical service has not been helpful. Since you have posted a detailed setup of Goldmund Reference, do you have suggestion for a suitable replacement motor. Thanks in advance

 

[egellings]

It looks like a tour de force, but likely vastly overengineered for the task it needs to do.

 

[DSJR]

Oh Frank, have you no shame at all?

What was the cartridge?

I'd better grab my coat and run for the hills...

 

[Frank Dernie]

Hi:

I am new to this forum. I have a Goldmund Reference turnable. The motor does not work well. I am looking for a replacement. So far, Goldmund technical service has not been helpful. Since you have posted a detailed setup of Goldmund Reference, do you have suggestion for a suitable replacement motor. Thanks in advance

It looks like a Phillips synchronous motor (as fitted to many earlier turntables) to me but I have no idea which model, sadly. I have never checked how easy it may be to remove from its heavy housing have you looked?

 

[Frank Dernie]

Oh Frank, have you no shame at all?

What was the cartridge?

I'd better grab my coat and run for the hills...

The cartridge was an Ortofon MC3000 mk2 when I first bought it used from the Goldmund Europe distributor almost 30 years ago, it was his demonstrator and he had no need for it once they discontinued it.
Next an Ortofon Jubilee then an Ortofon A90
You can see a preference here

 

[Frank Dernie]

Hi:

I am new to this forum. I have a Goldmund Reference turnable. The motor does not work well. I am looking for a replacement. So far, Goldmund technical service has not been helpful. Since you have posted a detailed setup of Goldmund Reference, do you have suggestion for a suitable replacement motor. Thanks in advance

Also, by the way, what are the symptoms?
it may not be the motor if it is just running a bit slow, the bearing is very low clearance and it was originally sold with two phials of oil one for warm climate and one for cold. When I moved back to England from France the Goldmund guy I bough it from kindly packed it up and moved it for me (good service eh, I was a good customer by then!) and having removed the oil from it he used the alternative which was the warm country oil - I had to point a reading lamp at the bearing for it to get up to speed after that, but eventually did my own very thin oil mix which just works at UK typical living room temperatures.