Article on how perception of octaves is learned, not wired.

[BDWoody]

Some recent threads have touched on this subject, and I thought it was interesting.

https://www.quantamagazine.org/perc...-are-learned-not-wired-in-the-brain-20191030/

 

[Cosmik]

You would have thought that a tone with a strong second harmonic would be a reason to hear them as the same note? (if I am following the argument)

If an iphone does the missing fundamental trick with its tiny speaker, does it not work for them?

 

[pozz]

Europeans/Americans tend to think that microtonal or modal music is out of tune.

Really interesting about octave perception specifically. I guess it's similar to learning to hear music as notes of particular keys, or to sense time signatures. ... About that: Don Buchla (synth pioneer) gave a talk on time signatures. IIRC, at the beginning a professor of music demonstrated the wide range of time signatures used in the Balkans.

 

[Julf]

Europeans/Americans tend to think that microtonal or modal music is out of tune.

How you split up an octave is pretty much arbitrary, but the octave (a doubling of frequency) is pretty absolute.

 

[pozz]

How you split up an octave is pretty much arbitrary, but the octave (a doubling of frequency) is pretty absolute.

That's true in acoustic, rather than perceptual or cultural terms. Same way that you can mathematically lay out polyrhythms but can't hear them if they weren't part of your musical repetoire growing up.

 

[daftcombo]

If I read well, the Tsimané might enjoy the high THD of totaldac. New market found.

 

[RayDunzl]

Looking at related links led me to The Simpson's theme, espanding on the subject of consonance vs dissonance:

Wow. Makes me laugh.

Maybe the whole concert as broadcast here ...

 

[PaulD]

It is indeed very interesting that the Tsimané do not appear to have octave equivalence in their perception of music. It would mess with western music, not to mention the serialists!

Western equal-tempered "harmony" and "dissonance" are certainly learned - a western person from the 14th century would hear our 20th century scales as pretty out-of-tune. Although the interference of 2 close displacements on the basilar membrane is well studied and accounts for western "dissonance" (critical bands - https://community.sw.siemens.com/s/article/critical-bands-in-human-hearing), how that is perceived (liked or shunned) is certainly cultural or individual. I write music without "harmony" as a structural element. Listen to Charles Ives' 3 quarter-tone pieces for 2 pianos a few times and going back to "standard" harmony is a bit boring, even for western ears.

 

[RayDunzl]

Easley Blackwood

In the Western 12 note scale, each higher note is the first frequency multiplied by the 12th root of two, discounting little tuning tricks to make the intervals work better

The 12th root of two is 1.05946309436

Why do we use twelve? I don't know.

If you want an octave scale with 15 notes, then use the 15th root of 2 as the multiplier.

Tracklist - with the "notes per octave" listed.

1 Fanfare In 19-Note Equal Tuning, Op. 28a 2:25
Twelve Microtonal Etudes For Electronic Music Media, Op. 28 (43:34)
2 16 Notes - Andantino 3:46
3 18 Notes - Allegro Volando 2:30
4 21 Notes - Suite In Four Mvts. 4:48
5 23 Notes - Allegro Moderato 3:17
6 13 Notes - Sostenuto 3:10
7 15 Notes - Lento 3:35
8 17 Notes - Con Moto 2:51
9 22 Notes - Andante Ma Non Troppo 4:35
10 24 Notes - Moderato 3:02
11 14 Notes - Allegramente 2:42
12 20 Notes - Comodo 3:57
13 19 Notes - Allegro Moderato 4:06
Suite For Guitar In 15-Note Equal Tuning, Op. 33 (9:38)
14 I. Prélude (Allegro) 2:49
15 II. Sarabande (Andante) 2:46
16 III. Gavotte (Tempo Di Gavotta) 1:04
17 IV. Gigue (Vivo) 2:51

 

[PaulD]

Harry Partch (1901-1974, see https://www.harrypartch.com) was a particularly interesting and inventive composer. He thought that western music went wrong at about the time of the crusades and we should be using a 43 note scale. Not only did he write a whole lot of music for that scale, he also designed and built a lot of instruments to play it, all while being homeless! I quilt like listening to Harry's music, here is a sample

And a doco

 

[PaulD]

Why do we use twelve? I don't know.

It comes from the natural overtone series. The natural harmonics gives us the 4th and 5th of the scale, and the succeeding intervals, except that they get progressively "out of tune" with a new root note. See http://www.opentextbooks.org.hk/ditatopic/2381 So transposition is impossible within the tuning system, which is a bit limiting (ie a tune must be sung in the key it's written in). Bach's Well Tempered Klavier has movements in each of the 24 major and minor keys, so the only way it can be played is on an equal tempered keyboard - Bach was promoting this tuning for greater compositional flexibility, like the ability to modulate to a new key within a piece.

We probably stopped at 12 notes to an octave centuries ago because the semitone is well within the "critical band" of our hearing and then we are in a realm of dissonance, and "harmony" was related to "heaven", and "dissonance" was related to "hell" or "unpleasantness"... 12 may have been believed to have other properties as a number too. For many years (eg, ancient Greece) there were 7 notes that related to 7 planets, music being an expression of the divine (ie expressing our world view), so there was no interest in any more notes or division of the octave. However we now have a different world view, and can enjoy music with much greater textures and tonality with more complex harmonic relationships (microtones). You could even say that equal-temperament is another of man's attempts at taming nature (the natural overtone series).