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Arendal 1723 vs Revel Performa3 208

ruzun

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I noticed the new Revel Performa3 line is on sale now. Buying 2 Revel F208 towers and one c208 center cost about the same as 2 Arendal 1723 towers and a 1723 center. Does anyone have an opinion on which would be preferable now that they are similar in price? The Arendal are a newer design maybe they are better despite being less expensive.

Roger
 

ronnzi

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I’m curious about this too (unfortunately, I don’t have any experience with either). I’m very curious about the Arendals, but would currently lean toward the Revels because of the 3-way center design. Other than it’s size, every comment I’ve seen about the C208 has labeled it pretty much as the best center channel out there…

Doing a quick Google search, Arendal seems to be downplaying that difference (their basic logic is that doing a 3-day design would impact timbre matching, mids would obviously be coming from a smaller woofer, and who listens off 30 deg of the center and actually cares?). Sort of good points - I’ve heard nothing but good things about Arendal speakers.

Curious what everyone’s takes are.
 
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ruzun

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The home theater I have is primarily a 1 or 2 seat design. The front towers are towed in to face the primary listening position and the center is directly in front of the primary listening position, if that matters.
 

Jim Taylor

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The home theater I have is primarily a 1 or 2 seat design. The front towers are toed in to face the primary listening position and the center is directly in front of the primary listening position, if that matters.

Which HT do you have now? What, exactly, are you wanting to gain? I would think that any shortcomings of your present HT would anticipate which improvements are necessary. Is that not the case?

Jim
 
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ruzun

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The Home theater is a 7.2.4 design. Most speakers are from 2004/2005. I have 2 Revel Ultima Salon Towers for the fronts, an Ultima Voice for the center. Revel Performa S30's as the surrounds and surround backs. The 4 ceiling speakers are Revel C763L's. For subs I have a Snell Acoustic ICS Sub 24 Subwoofer, and a Monoprice M-12 V2. Having listened to newer speaker designs, Bowers and Wilkins and Perlisten R7T's in listening rooms, I can say that my front speakers are not even close to on par with the newer speakers. I don't really have a ton of money to spend on speakers right now though, so I either wait until I can get $13k or so saved up or I try and buy what I can around $5-$6k now. I want to get efficient, newer design speakers that clearly best the front/centers I have now.

I think ideally I would want a pair of Perlisten R7T's and an R7c which they dont make, so I would have to get an R5c. That is kind of expensive for me now. I hear good things about the Arendal 1723 Center and Towers and those are around $5k for the 3. But they are very narrow dispersion and maybe that's not ideal even for just one listening position.

With the current sale on Performa3 speakers, the F208 and C208 combo is also about $5k. Those are still Revel so maybe they would match the Atmos ceiling and surrounds better.

So that's where I'm at, buy something around $5k now, or just wait a year or so and try and get something around $13k.
 

blueone

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The Home theater is a 7.2.4 design. Most speakers are from 2004/2005. I have 2 Revel Ultima Salon Towers for the fronts, an Ultima Voice for the center. Revel Performa S30's as the surrounds and surround backs. The 4 ceiling speakers are Revel C763L's. For subs I have a Snell Acoustic ICS Sub 24 Subwoofer, and a Monoprice M-12 V2. Having listened to newer speaker designs, Bowers and Wilkins and Perlisten R7T's in listening rooms, I can say that my front speakers are not even close to on par with the newer speakers. I don't really have a ton of money to spend on speakers right now though, so I either wait until I can get $13k or so saved up or I try and buy what I can around $5-$6k now. I want to get efficient, newer design speakers that clearly best the front/centers I have now.
Your perspectives are interesting, in that you think B&W speakers (you don't mention which models) are superior to the original Revel Salons. The Salons are pretty neutral speakers, as I remember from auditioning them a long time ago and published measurements, and B&Ws, even at the top of the line, have had a corporate sound that is far from neutral. I also would not have thought the Revel 208s would be superior to your Salon1s. I have not heard the R7ts, but I have heard nothing but great things about them. Still, the "not even close to being on par" quip makes me wonder... are you sure the Salon1s are functioning properly?
 
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ruzun

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I believe that they Salons are functioning properly. I have an Anthem AVM70 8k Processor and can see the before and after curves and they look fine. Despite this the sound is not nearly as realistic or convincing as the newer speakers I've listened to are (in different rooms that were setup as listening spaces). Maybe I need some sort of acoustic panels in the room but in the past those have never made much of a difference for me. Back in 2005 I had acoustic treatments in my old Home Theater in a different house (but using these same speakers) and it did not make much of a difference. Now with the newest ARC Genesis correction I'm not sure it would still. When I moved in 2010 to my current home I recall the same equipment sounded much better in my newer, larger room, despite the new room having no acoustic treatment. Its about 20' long by about 15' wide and 8' tall. Earlier this year when I built a 2 tier riser section that raised the front row of the Home theater seats about 4" the sound improved. So as far as my Salons go, they have never sounded better than they do now. The new ARC Genesis and the AVM70 improved the sound a lot, and raising the seating 4" in the front and 8" in the rear improved the sound a lot.

Despite it sounding better than ever the fronts I have don't really compare well to newer speakers I've heard.
 

MarcT

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The Home theater is a 7.2.4 design. Most speakers are from 2004/2005. I have 2 Revel Ultima Salon Towers for the fronts, an Ultima Voice for the center. Revel Performa S30's as the surrounds and surround backs. The 4 ceiling speakers are Revel C763L's. For subs I have a Snell Acoustic ICS Sub 24 Subwoofer, and a Monoprice M-12 V2. Having listened to newer speaker designs, Bowers and Wilkins and Perlisten R7T's in listening rooms, I can say that my front speakers are not even close to on par with the newer speakers. I don't really have a ton of money to spend on speakers right now though, so I either wait until I can get $13k or so saved up or I try and buy what I can around $5-$6k now. I want to get efficient, newer design speakers that clearly best the front/centers I have now.

I think ideally I would want a pair of Perlisten R7T's and an R7c which they dont make, so I would have to get an R5c. That is kind of expensive for me now. I hear good things about the Arendal 1723 Center and Towers and those are around $5k for the 3. But they are very narrow dispersion and maybe that's not ideal even for just one listening position.

With the current sale on Performa3 speakers, the F208 and C208 combo is also about $5k. Those are still Revel so maybe they would match the Atmos ceiling and surrounds better.

So that's where I'm at, buy something around $5k now, or just wait a year or so and try and get something around $13k.
Wow, I wouldn't expect any of the speakers you're considering to represent an upgrade from your Salons, at all. Unless there is something wrong with them. I will admit that the original Salon towers aren't the most aesthetically pleasing speakers out there, but I would not accept a downgrade in order to get better looking speakers. If you are really looking to upgrade the sound, I would look into finding a nice used set of Salon 2 towers and a Salon 2 Voice.
 
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ruzun

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Even Revel engineers themselves have said in youtube interviews that the new F328Be speakers are better than the Salon2's. And I imagine the C426Be is probably better than the Salon2 Voice. I think the original Salons are maybe not as good for whatever reason in actual use as you recall, and I think the new PerformaBe series bests the Salon2's in 2022. The problem with the Salon2's or the PerformaBe's is cost. At that price point I am far more likely to go with Perlisten over Revel, based on what I've heard and what I've read lately.

But I don't want to get in the situation where I buy new speakers, regardless of cost, and I find they are NOT a big upgrade vs the old Salons. I am not 100% its not something else that is causing my home theater to underperform vs newer listening rooms I have experienced lately.
 

blueone

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I believe that they Salons are functioning properly. I have an Anthem AVM70 8k Processor and can see the before and after curves and they look fine. Despite this the sound is not nearly as realistic or convincing as the newer speakers I've listened to are (in different rooms that were setup as listening spaces). Maybe I need some sort of acoustic panels in the room but in the past those have never made much of a difference for me. Back in 2005 I had acoustic treatments in my old Home Theater in a different house (but using these same speakers) and it did not make much of a difference. Now with the newest ARC Genesis correction I'm not sure it would still. When I moved in 2010 to my current home I recall the same equipment sounded much better in my newer, larger room, despite the new room having no acoustic treatment. Its about 20' long by about 15' wide and 8' tall. Earlier this year when I built a 2 tier riser section that raised the front row of the Home theater seats about 4" the sound improved. So as far as my Salons go, they have never sounded better than they do now. The new ARC Genesis and the AVM70 improved the sound a lot, and raising the seating 4" in the front and 8" in the rear improved the sound a lot.

Despite it sounding better than ever the fronts I have don't really compare well to newer speakers I've heard.
The Salon1s are very placement sensitive, and my two friends who owned them way back when were convinced the issue was the rear-facing tweeter. I'm not sure, having never owned them, and they are way too huge to be casually moving around without a hand truck. IMO, the Salon1 also benefited from some hand-tuned equalization, but it was so long ago I don't remember the specifics.

In my experience, bigger rooms almost always sound better than smaller rooms, especially with speakers which have significant bass response, like the Salon1s have, so your observation is no surprise.

But I'm still surprised at your thinking that B&Ws sound more realistic. Which B&W models were they?
 

Jim Taylor

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But I don't want to get in the situation where I buy new speakers, regardless of cost, and I find they are NOT a big upgrade vs the old Salons. I am not 100% its not something else that is causing my home theater to underperform vs newer listening rooms I have experienced lately.

I suspect that the "underperformance" you are experiencing is simply ennui. It happens. Something different is perceived by the brain as "better". Different equipment is "different", but so is a different room. Two variables rather than just one.

If I were you, I would start to experiment with the EQ in the room. The speakers you have now are good enough that any major differences are going to be in frequency response.

Lastly ..... the fact that the engineers from Revel chose YouTube as the vehicle for their statements leads me to believe that the basic reason for the interview was advertising, and not scientific exposition.

Jim
 

Kal Rubinson

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Even Revel engineers themselves have said in youtube interviews that the new F328Be speakers are better than the Salon2's.
Can you find that quote?
 

blueone

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Kal Rubinson

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ruzun

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Yes that was the guy I heard it from on Audioholics. Regardless both the 328Be and the Salon2 are out of my price range. And I'm unsure the less expensive speakers from Arendal or Revel will be better. I need to hold off and research this more. It's not like my Salons sound worse than before, its just that a couple of listening rooms Ive been in lately sound much better to me.
 

sarumbear

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Even Revel engineers themselves have said in youtube interviews that the new F328Be speakers are better than the Salon2's.
They were marketing newer speakers. I auditioned F328Be along with my trusty Salon2 set for a week, in my music room. They are good speakers but not a match to Salon2. The latter’s power and bass authority was not matched even remotely.
 

blueone

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Yes that was the guy I heard it from on Audioholics. Regardless both the 328Be and the Salon2 are out of my price range. And I'm unsure the less expensive speakers from Arendal or Revel will be better. I need to hold off and research this more. It's not like my Salons sound worse than before, its just that a couple of listening rooms Ive been in lately sound much better to me.
The Perlistens have received rave reviews, including in threads in this site. When you mentioned B&Ws it threw me off a bit.
 

blueone

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They were marketing newer speakers. I auditioned F328Be along with my trusty Salon2 for a week, in my music room. They are good speakers but not a match to Salon2. The latter’s power and bass authority was not matched even remotely.
I'm seriously considering ordering a pair of Genelec 8361a speakers to do a side-by-side with the Salon2s. Of course, I've been thinking about this for a few weeks now, and am still procrastinating. The long lead times on the Genelecs are stifling my impulse buying.
 

sarumbear

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I'm seriously considering ordering a pair of Genelec 8361a speakers to do a side-by-side with the Salon2s. Of course, I've been thinking about this for a few weeks now, and am still procrastinating. The long lead times on the Genelecs are stifling my impulse buying.
I have very recently auditioned a pair of 8351B + W371A as well, also in my room. They are indeed very good. I may consider them if something happens to my Salon2 but I’m so content with them that I really can’t be bothered. Also, I still think Salon2 beats Genelec in bass. Then again that may be due to the room.
 
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