Are you satisfied with your home Audio System?

[fas42]

Thanks for that, Dennis. Yes, 30 secs should be enough, with the right content - something like an orchestral crescendo, choral work or a rock recording with heavy cymbal content would be a good start ...

Stereo or mono, I'm not fussed. But stereo if it's the native format ...

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Where is that icon of the man pounding his head against the wall when we need it? Blumein, I think we need to stop sticking food between the bars.

Tim

 

[Sal1950]

Upgrade vote to reflect new system. Hope to even reach YES with some further room EQ. Very hard to get the performance I'm used to in this small irregular space.

 

[Chuck Gerlach]

For all practical purposes I am satisfied. With the tools on my Datasat, I can tweak and tweak and tweak and sometimes actually make improvements. I have no needs on the horizon that would improve the audio on my system. That, however, does not imply there are not things on the "wish list" that I am considering: cosmetic changes to the room and a movie server, and maybe a 4K/UHD compatible projector. It NEVER ends. NEVER!!!!!!

 

[NorthSky]

♦ http://www.illusonic.com/audio-processors/iap-16/
♦ http://www.iosono-sound.com/home/

 

[fas42]

Bob, the gimmicky audio processors won't be able to do it, until they have enormous processing power and can completely dismantle the audio signal into all the musical elements, allowing one to then reassemble the mix any way one wishes. This will happen down the track, but we ain't there yet ... in the meantime, the best audio processor, by light years, is the rubbery stuff between your ears - it can do a fantastic job if given the right data to play with, something the majority of audio systems just don't quite hit the mark on doing, most of the time ...

 

[Purité Audio]

The Illusonic is a superb bit of kit, preamp,dac,adc, phono stage, multi channel capability, digital crossovers, sophisticated EQ , it replaces six boxes here.
The bespoke EQ that Christof Faller ( Illusonic) creates from multi position measurements has brought me the finest sound quality I have ever heard.
Keith

 

[RayDunzl]

the gimmicky audio processors won't be able to do it, until they have enormous processing power and can completely dismantle the audio signal into all the musical elements, allowing one to then reassemble the mix any way one wishes.

Do what?

 

[fas42]

Do what?

Allow you to tweak the sound so that it is exactly the way you want it to be.

 

[NorthSky]

Bob, the gimmicky audio processors won't be able to do it, until they have enormous processing power and can completely dismantle the audio signal into all the musical elements, allowing one to then reassemble the mix any way one wishes. This will happen down the track, but we ain't there yet ... in the meantime, the best audio processor, by light years, is the rubbery stuff between your ears - it can do a fantastic job if given the right data to play with, something the majority of audio systems just don't quite hit the mark on doing, most of the time ...

Frank, my audio journey started @ age zero; I could hear my Mum's heartbeat while inside her wombs, with chamber echo effects.
Since then I went true the usual suspects...AM mono transistor radio, TTs, 8-track tapes, etc.
Everything went smoothly and slowly, even today I have never experienced a state-of-the-art immersive sound experience.
When I take a stroll up the mountain all I can hear @ 360° is the wind in the tree's branches, the birds above, the cougars, the moose, the river down below, the flipping of the eagle's wings, and the whales way down below having a shower party.

@ home, inside my movie/music room I'm not even close to that with only nine speakers (subs) EQualized by an old and rudimentary auto digital MultEQ XT32 system. I don't even know if it measures close to "being in the forest". I watched 'Tarzan' in the jungle with all his buddies (lions, elephants, monkeys...) and they do sound all around with Tarzan above doing his stunt behind the trees to the astonishment of Jane. ...The animated film, so of course it's not truly real but all reproduced from a sound mixing effect board/console.

I know I know it's very low fidelity life, but I still prefer it to a simple AM mono transistor radio.

The two links I just provided above...I know nothing...only what I've read.

And Chuck is right; it's never over. I'm not even subscribed yet with the program; Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, Auro-3D immersive audio (movies and music) and 4K moving pictures on Blu-ray. 3D is only a slightly more immersive dimension (depth) compared to 2D (1080p in my case).

It is a very tough question to answer with 100% accuracy when we just don't know everything that is out there and that we didn't listen to.
To me, it's ok...I'll live. ...And no matter what I'd learn to be satisfied, and I won't tell anyone how to attain the unobtainable. ...Right?
Anyway, it's all about fine tuning what we got, and enjoy the majority of the other time what we listen to.
Because after all, we're all going to die soon or later.

It's a great day today, on this beautiful blue planet, and with all the world's athlete colors in Rio de Janeiro...including a blue swimming (water polo) pool (with too much chlorine) and a green diving pool (with algae).

 

[fas42]

To me, it's ok...I'll live. ...And no matter what I'd learn to be satisfied, and I won't tell anyone how to attain the unobtainable. ...Right?
Anyway, it's all about fine tuning what we got, and enjoy the majority of the other time what he listen to.
Because after all, we're all going to die soon or later.

It's a great day today, on this beautiful blue planet, and with all the world's athlete colors in Rio de Janeiro...including a blue swimming pool and a green diving room.

Bob, part of me is quite satisfied, because I've got playback to a very high level at times from borin' ol' stereo, and I know that it can go even further - it's sorta like having climbed a very high mountain, I don't need to keep repeating myself, to remind me of what it's like - fooling around on smaller stuff is quite fun, because every now and again I can push things, just to note how the potential opens up each time, ready to be taken to another level. Which is a roundabout way of saying that I can be satisfied with with quite unspecial sound - this, I'm sure, is how it would come across to a stray observer ...

Attain the unobtainable? The latter is most certainly not the case - but it usually doesn't happen because people want packaged solutions, buy it off the shelf type of thing. Everything I've done so far says this is not the way it's going to happen, at least not for a while yet anyway.

 

[NorthSky]

The unobtainable is like bringing the full classical orchestra (110 musicians, the conductor and the two tenors...man and woman) inside your listening room.
The obtainable is to go @ the classical hall where they perform, live. ...In Sidney.

Anything between is just that; between a ghetto blaster, youtube music videos from your cell phone, a full pledge $1,000 hi-fi stereo sound system, and one of $1 million dollars (USD). ...Analog, and with or without headphones.

For multichannel you can go all the way digital. That includes bass management, Room EQ and Acoustic Room Treatments, plus ultra hi-end digital cables, even the AC power chords from the external power supply and multichannel DAC.
Oh, and not before three months of extensive break-in time. ...To let all the parts communicate warmly in sync with each other, including the electrolyte capacitors.

 

[fas42]

The unobtainable is like bringing the full classical orchestra (110 musicians, the conductor and the two tenors...man and woman) inside your listening room.
The obtainable is to go @ the classical hall where they perform, live. ...In Sidney.

That's not how it works, Bob ... a system in good tune makes the listening room disappear, you're no longer in that latter space; that's why they say that you're transported to the recording venue, 'cause that's exactly how it comes across. You walk down to the room where the your system is on, and when you walk through the door you walk into the vast concert hall - if that happens to be the place where the recording occurred. The fact that you can see walls some feet away is irrelevant to the message that your ears are getting, you are in a very big space, acoustically.

 

[NorthSky]

I'm watching the Olympics...women basketball, before men beach volleyball.
It's satisfying when all the team (audio components) are working together.

If I listen to a good quality music recording in stereo, with subs, and the volume level is just right for each recording in my room, it still sounds stereo; not like if the band was in my room.
If I listen to a quality multichannel music recording (Blu-ray, SACD, DVD-Audio), in the same circumstances as above, and if there is a band playing on the tele (picture), in 3D, I feel closer to the real experience. It's not my fault, I can't control it, it's just something that is higher than me.

We all have been @ some live music jams, small jazz places, small chamber classical music halls, small blues alleys, I even had music jam sessions with friend musicians in my own living rooms where my hi-fi sound systems reside...the exact same rooms....over the years. And it just ain't the same; the fluctuations, intonations, minute volume differences, paste and rhythm, tones from the instruments, atmosphere, sweat, adrenaline, presence, soundstage, ...it just sounds no the same....no matter how hard I try.
It's not easy to put five live musicians, including the singer, inside two boxes. They just don't fit...not enough room. We would have to remove all the walls from the enclosures and have the drivers suspended in mid air by themselves, in the nude. Or having more than just two speakers with an image floating between.
Like three to start (one physical presence in the middle), and then five...two wide ones.

I just like to break free from conventional and limited stereo hi-fi. I'm not the only one.
I still love stereo, but it's passé, retro, illusive, barrier limited. I grew up with stereo cartridges, black and white round TVs, with tubes inside.
Then I started to add up more speakers, I tried with one in the middle, one in the rear, I was only 14-15, then I started to walk more and more in the forests and hear sounds all around, even in the concert hall where I used to work.

Some find their magic with only two speakers, others by adding two subs, and others by going three channels, then four, five, seven, nine, eleven.
Some fine tune their stereo all their life, others change theirs every month, others try to balance eleven speakers together like a juggler.
No matter what we do, how we do it, it is always a great challenge to bring that live music band in our music listening room...a heck of a challenge...an impossible mission. And our degree of satisfaction reflects. ...I think.

The grass is usually greener in the neighbor's yard, depending of the soil's quality and the water humidity/purification.
Every day is a different day, some are satisfying, others less...it all depends...all relative, very.
It's like competing @ the Olympics.

 

[fas42]

Some find their magic with only two speakers, others by adding two subs, and others by going three channels, then four, five, seven, nine, eleven.
Some fine tune their stereo all their life, others change theirs every month, others try to balance eleven speakers together like a juggler.
No matter what we do, how we do it, it is always a great challenge to bring that live music band in our music listening room...a heck of a challenge...an impossible mission. And our degree of satisfaction reflects. ...I think.

Bob, a lot of the magic is being able to go loud, effortlessly. When you hear this happen correctly then it becomes obvious that this is a prime ingredient - and you then register how poor most systems are at doing this. When pushed, they go into PA mode - lots of bellowing and screeching, the quality falls apart rapidly - a system needs to a quiet achiever, meaning nothing special appears to be different, no matter how loud it goes.

 

[Cosmik]

That's not how it works, Bob ... a system in good tune makes the listening room disappear, you're no longer in that latter space; that's why they say that you're transported to the recording venue, 'cause that's exactly how it comes across. You walk down to the room where the your system is on, and when you walk through the door you walk into the vast concert hall - if that happens to be the place where the recording occurred. The fact that you can see walls some feet away is irrelevant to the message that your ears are getting, you are in a very big space, acoustically.

Frank, do you see 'the problem' as a question of mathematics? Are these "in tune" systems effectively implementing a particular mathematical relationship between input and output? A transfer function? An equation? Is it a uniquely 'correct' equation that they are implementing, or one of a finite number of equations that all meet the criteria? What are the criteria? Are these equations immune to influence from temperature and humidity?

Because, to me, the odds of taking an 'incorrect' system and being able to massage it with bits of sticky back plastic into implementing the 'correct' equation seem pretty low. And the odds of there being an equation that a system can implement that makes any recording sound 'real' at the listening position are very remote. And that this equation also makes it sound 'real' from anywhere else in the house are even more remote. And that it works at all temperatures and humidity levels are even more remote.

Stereo isn't meant to sound real at the listening position and everywhere else! There may be the occasional fluke that maps onto your room's dimensions and furnishings and gives you a moment of "Is that real?" while you're elsewhere in the house, but it's most likely not a direct impression of the sound of the recording anyway.

 

[fas42]

Frank, do you see 'the problem' as a question of mathematics? Are these "in tune" systems effectively implementing a particular mathematical relationship between input and output? A transfer function? An equation? Is it a uniquely 'correct' equation that they are implementing, or one of a finite number of equations that all meet the criteria? What are the criteria? Are these equations immune to influence from temperature and humidity?

Because, to me, the odds of taking an 'incorrect' system and being able to massage it with bits of sticky back plastic into implementing the 'correct' equation seem pretty low. And the odds of there being an equation that a system can implement that makes any recording sound 'real' at the listening position are very remote. And that this equation also makes it sound 'real' from anywhere else in the house are even more remote. And that it works at all temperatures and humidity levels are even more remote.

It depends on the area. My viewpoint is that it's about being aware of what aspects of the sound you hear are distortion, and one of the more obvious ones is when the volume is raised, and that transfer function is not sufficiently linear. This is a failure of basic engineering of the amplifier, so here you could say mathematics is directly involved.

But many of the sources of distortion are just poor implementation - poor quality links on that chain of circuitry and parts that bring the audio signal to life as acoustic activity. I learnt 30 years ago that if one knocks over enough of the various causes of this type of distortion that it allows the mind to flick a switch over, such that it accepts the illusion as being 'real'. One is never "massaging" the system, the process is to identify flaws in the sound, make intelligent guesses as to the cause, by observation, experiments and experience, and eliminate or bypass the problem. And one just keeps doing this, a step at a time, eliminating each weakness until the quality is sufficient - there are limits, sometimes the intrinsic quality of some, major, part of the system is too poor, and the value of continuing is not there.

So, not equations - the incorrectness is caused by flaws, not fundamentals of electrical behaviour - the seal of an air lock won't do its job if some particles of foreign material get trapped in the gap, not because there is something wrong with the design of the seal.

 

[Cosmik]

So, not equations - the incorrectness is caused by flaws, not fundamentals of electrical behaviour - the seal of an air lock won't do its job if some particles of foreign material get trapped in the gap, not because there is something wrong with the design of the seal.

So the designs of cheap television audio sections are OK, but there are a few bits of metaphorical foreign matter trapped in there that you can brush away?

 

[fas42]

They may be OK, they may not. One TV we have can produce decent audio, the other can't - the latter was too unpromising, not worth persisting with. I've done the experiments sufficient times over the years, with completely different gear, for the behaviour to be clear - audio setups of a reasonable standard can be prodded into producing competent sound, given sufficient motivation to get the job done. So the sensible thing is to start with good value for money, solidly made components, and bring them up to scratch.

The "foreign matter" can be pretty solid - the NAD amp in the current project was riddled with rubbishy links throughout the signal path - eliminating these lifted the standard from borderline midfi to something becoming interesting ... it's a well worn path I follow ...

 

[Thomas savage]

They may be OK, they may not. One TV we have can produce decent audio, the other can't - the latter was too unpromising, not worth persisting with. I've done the experiments sufficient times over the years, with completely different gear, for the behaviour to be clear - audio setups of a reasonable standard can be prodded into producing competent sound, given sufficient motivation to get the job done. So the sensible thing is to start with good value for money, solidly made components, and bring them up to scratch.

The "foreign matter" can be pretty solid - the NAD amp in the current project was riddled with rubbishy links throughout the signal path - eliminating these lifted the standard from borderline midfi to something becoming interesting ... it's a well worn path I follow ...

You got any pictures of these 'links' and the work you have done.. Maybe if you documented it this way we could understand what your up to at least.