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are you disappointed of some of your old favorite songs that sound like crap on you new hi fi equipment?

kami

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#41
If by "written this twice" you include 'questioned my observation in the second post' then sure.

A while back I took that trip down memory lane that we do sometimes. I was actually comparing to GNR with a couple of friends for whom the latter is formative. I'm older so GNR's ascent took place during my child-raising years—too busy listening to The Wiggles and Aqua—I literally couldn't recall a single song by them. Didn't help, my friends' taste isn't mine. They didn't like classic metal or modern post-hardcore much either. Also, level of drunkenness.

Despite the memory haze, I remained surprised by Sabbath openers—Sweet Leaf from Master of Reality and Wheels of Confusion from Vol.4—sounding so ... slo-mo. Compared to front-of-mind ~core from BMTH say. Anyway, following those posts here I did some revision/homework. Because you do. In tempo terms (so BPM for modern music) The Comedown is only 103 BPM per a common calculator. Surprise. What created my impression it was faster, or fast at all? The main riffage (chord progressions) is faster than the aforenamed Sabbath tracks by my reckoning. But I think it's the sustained pace of the drumming. I assume there's terminology for whatever subdivision of beat is going on, so If there's a drummer or informed muso who can explain how this works, I'm all ears.

Sadly, no studio footage of that track by the band that I can see, but here's a competent/faithful reconstruction—watch the drummer's legs move—for reference:


Edit: Sweet Leaf in the studio. 148 BPM per calculator. It picks up the pace about three minutes in, and holds it for a minute:


Yeah, Ozzy may have done too many drugs. Oli was well on the way there, but took a breather. Anyway tell me what faster means to you?
I will jump here to provide my two cents:

BPM of drums in the two songs mentioned by @Blaspheme

- Bring Me The Horizon - The Comedown [drum tab] - 206 BPM
- Black Sabbath - Sweet Leaf [drum tab] - 148 BPM

That's only going by drums. I am only learning drums, so that's all I can contribute.

Songsterr allows you to play a midi version of the chart without leaving the browser, in case you want to validate if it really sounds like the original track

KM
 

Blaspheme

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#42
I will jump here to provide my two cents:

BPM of drums in the two songs mentioned by @Blaspheme

- Bring Me The Horizon - The Comedown [drum tab] - 206 BPM
- Black Sabbath - Sweet Leaf [drum tab] - 148 BPM

That's only going by drums. I am only learning drums, so that's all I can contribute.

Songsterr allows you to play a midi version of the chart without leaving the browser, in case you want to validate if it really sounds like the original track

KM
Those numbers make more sense. Averages over length of track?

Drums do appear to be the basis of my original impression, along with overall pace. I think the fast bits of the two tracks are not dissimilar, so the slower majority of Sweet Leaf is noticeable (while most of The Comedown is fast). Thanks. And good luck with drumming.

:)

Edit: Songsterr looks interesting. BPM is the same for each instrument track, the other calculator measured precisely half. There's probably a reason.
 
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#44
Those numbers make more sense. Averages over length of track?

Drums do appear to be the basis of my original impression, along with overall pace. I think the fast bits of the two tracks are not dissimilar, so the slower majority of Sweet Leaf is noticeable (while most of The Comedown is fast). Thanks. And good luck with drumming.

:)

Edit: Songsterr looks interesting. BPM is the same for each instrument track, the other calculator measured precisely half. There's probably a reason.
Those numbers make more sense. Averages over length of track?

Drums do appear to be the basis of my original impression, along with overall pace. I think the fast bits of the two tracks are not dissimilar, so the slower majority of Sweet Leaf is noticeable (while most of The Comedown is fast). Thanks. And good luck with drumming.

:)

Edit: Songsterr looks interesting. BPM is the same for each instrument track, the other calculator measured precisely half. There's probably a reason.
Yes, the BPM is probably averaged.
As a drummer I use that to know if I'm capable of performing it to its full length, if it's too fast, I am going to screw up for lack of control and speed.

Thanks for asking, you forced me to actually read the chart instead of skimming through

The drum bass notes in The Comedown are 1/16th notes
The drum bass notes in Sweet Leaf is are 1/8th notes and then 1/16th notes in some sections (around bar 92)

Here's a quick reference about 1/16th notes
About learning the drums, still a beginner but highly motivated!

KM
 

krabapple

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#45
um...like I said, if music sounds 'slow' it's because of the performance itself. What's that to do with the topic of this thread? Sabbath doesn't sound faster or slower depending on the fidelity of your sound system.
 

Blaspheme

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#46
um...like I said, if music sounds 'slow' it's because of the performance itself. What's that to do with the topic of this thread? Sabbath doesn't sound faster or slower depending on the fidelity of your sound system.
I think it's called a tangent. Sometimes they are the most interesting parts of the conversation. At least, kami's replies were interesting to me. If that's upsetting, don't read the tangents.

One of the more common observations in this thread so far is less bass (meaning less bass extension) in older stuff. Those older recordings don't have less bass extension because of the fidelity of my sound system, they were recorded that way. They are reproduced faithfully, but our musical perspective has changed.

(Older recordings with bass extension including the interesting examples wwenze posted upthread may sound better of course.)
 
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steve59

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#47
I remember my first real hifi speakers that I spent a month wages on and they destroyed 75% of my cd collection. Upgrading my realistic 55 wpc receiver brought some harsh down but still it took years for prices of decent sounding cd players to come down to earth and finally a little room treatment. I had different expectations of 'great bass' then also thinking I would get more better bass when in fact the bass disappeared, I mean compared to the typical department store boxes that're +15 at 100hz. I had to learn what music should sound like
 

Blaspheme

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#48
Yes, the BPM is probably averaged.
As a drummer I use that to know if I'm capable of performing it to its full length, if it's too fast, I am going to screw up for lack of control and speed.

Thanks for asking, you forced me to actually read the chart instead of skimming through

The drum bass notes in The Comedown are 1/16th notes
The drum bass notes in Sweet Leaf is are 1/8th notes and then 1/16th notes in some sections (around bar 92)

Here's a quick reference about 1/16th notes
About learning the drums, still a beginner but highly motivated!

KM
Thanks for that. Sixteenth notes. You'd think I'd remember my piano lessons. :)
 

Blaspheme

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#49
I remember my first real hifi speakers that I spent a month wages on and they destroyed 75% of my cd collection. Upgrading my realistic 55 wpc receiver brought some harsh down but still it took years for prices of decent sounding cd players to come down to earth and finally a little room treatment. I had different expectations of 'great bass' then also thinking I would get more better bass when in fact the bass disappeared, I mean compared to the typical department store boxes that're +15 at 100hz. I had to learn what music should sound like
That's a good point. The JBLs in my first stereo (or my dad's, strictly speaking, but I guess he bought it for me as he didn't listen that much) probably had that west coast sound, boosting the mid-bass. As products/production improved, so did my understanding/appreciation.
 

Ken1951

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#50
I'm pretty sure my position is anathema to audiophiles, but all I care about is the song. If it's a song that moves me, it always moves me, no matter what it's played on. Be it in the car, the great room system, the mbr system, or anything else. It's always the song. The Crane Wife 3, Can't Find My Way Home, Missing, Midnight Rider, Seven Bridges Road, White Bird, Solid Air, Hurt, Bonny Swans, Will the Wolf Survive, Into the Wild, Geordie, Guilt, A Tale of Lonely Otter, Pink Moon, Bury My Lovely, All We Do, Last Train Home, Icarus, Gimme Shelter, Avalon, The Way I Feel, Listen Listen, Goodnight Moon, Amul - Priceless, Wild Horses, Urge For Going, Tear In Your Hand, Snow In San Anselmo, and Birdland are just a few such songs. Doesn't matter the source, doesn't matter the playback system. I am always moved.
 
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#51
I'm pretty sure my position is anathema to audiophiles, but all I care about is the song. If it's a song that moves me, it always moves me, no matter what it's played on. Be it in the car, the great room system, the mbr system, or anything else. It's always the song. The Crane Wife 3, Can't Find My Way Home, Missing, Midnight Rider, Seven Bridges Road, White Bird, Solid Air, Hurt, Bonny Swans, Will the Wolf Survive, Into the Wild, Geordie, Guilt, A Tale of Lonely Otter, Pink Moon, Bury My Lovely, All We Do, Last Train Home, Icarus, Gimme Shelter, Avalon, The Way I Feel, Listen Listen, Goodnight Moon, Amul - Priceless, Wild Horses, Urge For Going, Tear In Your Hand, Snow In San Anselmo, and Birdland are just a few such songs. Doesn't matter the source, doesn't matter the playback system. I am always moved.
this, this is what I want

I want to enjoy music, and enjoy the drums on the songs.

But sometimes my mind drifts into the details and nuances, the clipping, and I start asking myself:

"Is this a bad track? are my headphones distorting? what happened there?"

KM
 

concorde1

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#52
I'm pretty sure my position is anathema to audiophiles, but all I care about is the song. If it's a song that moves me, it always moves me, no matter what it's played on.
I'm an audiophile and I get two simultaneous experiences at once: the smooth sound of the music is contenting, and the "hit"/goosebumps I get when wonderful things happen in the music.
 
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Tks

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#53
In a roundabout way it highlights how needed the work of places like ASR truly is. Apparently half the mixing engineers in the world have hot garbage for studio monitors.

I just try to enjoy the good songs more to compensate.
Or ears

Or just a million things in the chain and all probably garbage performance once the 20th device in the chain imparts its distortion.
 
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#54
Ha! I was listening to E. Power Biggs organ pieces and thought that the Doors' Light My Fire with its organ solo would sound really great. No. Also the famous saxophone solo on "Angel Baby" definitely sounds much better on a vintage 1970s car radio.
I had a version of that album that I think I got from I think itunes that had some pretty nasty crackle that my ATH-A900's weren't revealing, but wasn't present in the hi res version I got from HDtracks, so you might try that.

Oh right, and if you're on headphones you'll want crossfeed for this album. I use the Bauer stereophonic to binaural DSP in foobar for early stereo releases.
 

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