Are we hitting a bump in the golden age of cheap audio electronics?

[A Surfer]

Sounds like you really miss it, could you not get back into it? Even freelance?

Always liked creative based stuff, but I couldn't do it as a job, I am used to farm work and being outdoors and get a bit fidgety after say 30 minutes at a computer. Although I'm fast becoming a lot more patient in that regard.

I do miss it, and if I could I would. Really interesting that coincidently, if I didn't have an autoimmune disorder that attacks my back seriously (Ankylosing Spoditlitus) and I could wave a magic wand and go back 30 years, I would love to be involved in agriculture. What is more important than growing food (hopefully sustainably, and organically whenever possible)?

I also find it painful being shackled to an indoors life, but I spend as much time as possible in nature. My girlfriend would live outside if she could, and if my physical state hadn't been affected as much as it has been in recent years, we would be canoe camping, hiking and immersing ourselves in long cycle trips all the time. Being outdoors is the best thing and I am happy that you have that. Enjoy it as much as you can. Nobody can ever be certain that their body will continue to cooperate so everyday that you are fit and able is a gift.

I'm not crippled, but I had to give up so much in the way of activities that I once enjoyed. Hopefully some of the effects of this condition can be controlled through lifestyle and medication hacks. Time will tell. Until then, sadly I am in front of a computer and not out in a field or forest.

 

[Galliardist]

They are under no obligation to entirely disclose their involvement in every open source project.

Maybe they are, at least when it comes to the Linux kernel and the main drivers, for legal reasons. Imagine the lawsuit if Apple quietly got code inserted into the Linux kernel or a key driver, undisclosed, and then there was a security fault in that code, or it made Linux run more slowly on certain platforms? Anyway, I'll take that as you have "no proof" of Apple source in the Linux kernel.

In fact, I find one-sided "OS innovation" utterly annoying these days, when for some reason the "keepers of the OS castle" for no good reason update UI stuff even though what was there worked perfectly well, and it's just change for change's sake and forces new meaningless visuals on users.

Agreed. Some changes are useful, but things that make people have to relearn how to use their computer for no benefit are just stupid.

Worst of all are the half-done changes. Windows has had both Settings and the old Control Panel for how many years now?

They most certainly use Linux (not MacOS) all over their cloud infrastructure, and you can bet they contribute to several Linux Foundation open source projects... which sometimes requires kernel updates. For obvious reasons they have no interest in those being public, nor is there a legal need to do so. Anyone can contribute. But the signatures in Github and others tell a different story. It would be naive to assume a trillion dollar company that uses Linux pervasively in their infrastructure refuses to add anything in there.

They openly contribute outside of the kernel and the core drivers. But like any other large company, other developers are wary (and rightly so). I understood that Apple forked CUPS (they now run their "own version") partly because of developer politics. Signatures in GitHub are hardly hiding involvement.

Actually, they do their damn best to prevent Linux to *publicly* run on their latest processors. Read into it whatever you like. They are happy to do it internally, clearly. No different than Microsoft, who are still happy to sell you a server OS, while they themselves use Linux in their Azure cloud.

They are effectively involved in Asahi Linux. The reason for their caution with Linux (and indeed why they aren't using a BootCamp type system with ARM Windows) is security of their own kernel and firmware. Any Linux that will run on current Apple hardware has to follow security rules. I do hope that the reason is obvious by now.

They most certainly use Linux (not MacOS) all over their cloud infrastructure, and you can bet they contribute to several Linux Foundation open source projects... which sometimes requires kernel updates. For obvious reasons they have no interest in those being public, nor is there a legal need to do so. Anyone can contribute. But the signatures in Github and others tell a different story. It would be naive to assume a trillion dollar company that uses Linux pervasively in their infrastructure refuses to add anything in there.

Yes and no. The kernel is pretty tightly controlled, and Apple are a software developer like all the other outsiders. If Apple find a bug or want a feature in the kernel, they report it or request it, just like any other developer, from the big boys down to the individuals who do so much of the work. It's that way because it has to be.

PS: Ultimately I think the whole OS discussion is unnecessary under this topic. Both Win and MacOS just add useless cost on top of a bare bones, "ungated" OS system for cheap audio.

Mostly true. Except that a bare bones ungated OS for cheap audio is as vulnerable as those LED lights that hackers were using to gain access to network, or the laser printer that got hacked and did double duty for a couple of years serving pirate videos (I forget the actual details). There is a reason for a home user to use a secure and regularly updated OS for streaming, as opposed to a device with no ongoing support. Cheap audio software and firmware might be coming with risks, and how would we know?

 

[Ze Frog]

I do miss it, and if I could I would. Really interesting that coincidently, if I didn't have an autoimmune disorder that attacks my back seriously (Ankylosing Spoditlitus) and I could wave a magic wand and go back 30 years, I would love to be involved in agriculture. What is more important than growing food (hopefully sustainably, and organically whenever possible)?

I also find it painful being shackled to an indoors life, but I spend as much time as possible in nature. My girlfriend would live outside if she could, and if my physical state hadn't been affected as much as it has been in recent years, we would be canoe camping, hiking and immersing ourselves in long cycle trips all the time. Being outdoors is the best thing and I am happy that you have that. Enjoy it as much as you can. Nobody can ever be certain that their body will continue to cooperate so everyday that you are fit and able is a gift.

I'm not crippled, but I had to give up so much in the way of activities that I once enjoyed. Hopefully some of the effects of this condition can be controlled through lifestyle and medication hacks. Time will tell. Until then, sadly I am in front of a computer and not out in a field or forest.

Ah, sorry to hear that. Hopefully you find a way around it to a degree. It's pretty amazing what some people can do to chase what seems impossible in their situation, hope you find a way you can still do things in future.

Yeah, mostly organic to a point, but chemicals have to be used for some areas where needed. I'm in the UK, farming here still has places where it's not all massively industrial in it's operation, although it's a profession that sadly seems to be getting squeezed as the year's go by. One place I work at even has some really old equipment, like stepping back in time and has this single cylinder tractor that still gets used daily, an old Field Marshal, awesome bit of kit, amazed it gets used as probably really collectable.

 

[A Surfer]

Ah, sorry to hear that. Hopefully you find a way around it to a degree. It's pretty amazing what some people can do to chase what seems impossible in their situation, hope you find a way you can still do things in future.

Yeah, mostly organic to a point, but chemicals have to be used for some areas where needed. I'm in the UK, farming here still has places where it's not all massively industrial in it's operation, although it's a profession that sadly seems to be getting squeezed as the year's go by. One place I work at even has some really old equipment, like stepping back in time and has this single cylinder tractor that still gets used daily, an old Field Marshal, awesome bit of kit, amazed it gets used as probably really collectable.

Well, farming as a profession I've been told has been on the rise in terms of appreciation and prestige. For whatever that may be worth. Certainly among those who take the time to appreciate what really matters, the people who feed us are at the very top of the pile.

I always comment to others that of all of the highly paid career paths and professions, very few of them actually matter. Those who can grow food, fix and build things, and those who can heal the sick or create wonderful art, they produce real benefit to society.

Count yourself among that group and be glad that you know how to produce food. In the years to come that skill is going to be even more valued than it is now. Climate change has the potential to disrupt the world's breadbasket regions. Sure hope that doesn't happen. Look after that soil and water. Nothing is more precious.

As for my prognosis, I'm certainly not rolling over and giving up. It is just hard to have to say goodbye to so many great things like playing many sports. Still, could be much worse, and once I get started on the advanced biological medication I am supposed to start, I might even get some of my abilities back. I can still hit the gym pretty hard, but sadly can't exercise my legs or lower back at all. I used to squat pretty significant weight and had really strong legs. Not anymore. Oh well, still have so much to be thankful for. Cheers mate.

 

[DLS79]

Windows' current feature is the annoying barrage of messages to buy Windows-related stuff. You know, like turn on cloud backup.
Umm, yeah, no thanks, I'm good.

Last week, I was getting these little messages on the wake-up screen to see my 2023 XBox year in review or something like that.
Yeah... no XBox here -- in 2023, nor in any year before that. So, thanks, Microsoft, for downloading that mission-critical update for my O/S.

Now -- if you'll excuse me, I have to go yell at some clouds. EDIT: Maybe tilt at a few windmills, too -- you know, long as I'm at it.

maybe you should just learn how to turn that off, because i don't ever see anythtring like that. For refrence I'm running windows 11 pro!

 

[NoteMakoti]

It used to be that there were expensive audio electronics and cheap ones, and you never knew what exactly you were compromising if you got a cheap one.

Then a few things changed.

Well, first, globalization happened.

Then high performance ICs were built, which freed the manufacturers from the most of the detailed, hard to do engineering work, allowing them to focus on implementation and actual manufacturing processes, making it possible to manufacture high performance audio devices for the fraction of the cost.

Then, lead by ASR, audio equipment measurement sites showed people that they are not compromising on sound quality by buying these cheap products.

Result of that was the golden age of cheap audio electronics.

But it feels like we are hitting the top of the curve these days. The reason I think that is because I suspect most people who wanted a cheap good DAC already have one, and the newer DACs do not really offer any reason to buy them over the ones we already have. I think we might be looking at dropping sales now, and unless they can bring a meaningful innovation to the market, I am not sure what will Topping, SMSL and Fosi and others be selling next year to keep their companies running.

Does this make sense to you?

We have the DACs and amps we dreamed of 15 years ago when we were driving our iPods with altoid tin battery amps, but they're still far from perfect. They've got performance to spare, but the design and featuresets are still severely lacking. Part of the reason Topping and SMSL can get away with Chartmogging their competition with numbers so hard is that most gear doesn't really offer much more than powerscaling SINAD and big output mW. I'd imagine if stuff like Ferrum Audio's gimmicks trickled down into the sub-$1k space, or if every dongle and receiver came with features like parametric EQ, we'd be a lot more excited about new releases.

 

[Descartes]

Most people out of the 8 Billion people in the world can’t even afford a meal three times a day and you want them to buy a DAC! This is a first world problem!

 

[Galliardist]

Most people out of the 8 Billion people in the world can’t even afford a meal three times a day and you want them to buy a DAC! This is a first world problem!

About 7 billion people have access to smartphones, if you believe results of a quick Google search.

While I suspect an overestimate here it suggests that “most people have a DAC” by default and that many can assuage hunger pains by listening to Taylor Swift. Maybe a third even get to listen with good sound quality even.

The world is indeed a weird place.

 

[IAtaman]

Most people out of the 8 Billion people in the world can’t even afford a meal three times a day and you want them to buy a DAC! This is a first world problem!

Not me, no Sir!
I say, give the man a DAC, and he will listen to music. Teach the man how to convert digital data streams to band limited analogue signals, and he can make his own DAC.
After all the music is the food of the soul. And a hungry soul is worse than a hungry stomach.

 

[A Surfer]

Not for me. A hungry stomach is worse than a hungry soul.