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Are we getting the emphasis wrong?

Wes

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Everything this forum aims for is, I’m sure, fundamentally correct. I just want to note the major issue in our listening enjoyment.

Look, we have DACs which are transparent costing $100, and yet some still pay $1,000 fa ‘better’ one which is no better at worst, and only a tiny bit better at best.

But this isn’t where the biggest problem is. The biggest problem is with the mastering. Poorly mastered, unbalanced, brick-walled, loudness wars, shoddy mastering.

Is there nothing we can do? There appear to be quite a few people in the ‘audiophile’ community with contacts to the music industry, and there do genuinely appear to be people involved who care a lot about quality.

Can we not have some sort of campaign. I mean how difficult can it be to master stuff properly, at least within a number of set parameters?

Wouldn’t the success of such a campaign give us all better-sounding music FOR FREE, without having to upgrade any of our kit?

And, on the other hand, what’s the point in listening to your favourite music through a pair of $4,000 headphones if the mastering is shoddy.

My apologies, just venting.

The biggest problem is with the mastering.

No, the speakers/room is a bigger problem usually.

I agree that mastering is a much larger problem than HiFi electronics, and I "do something" by looking for the best (reputedly) masters or editions I can find.

We need to devote more attention to measuring compression artifacts on different releases. I know of only one guy who does that comparison.
 

voodooless

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My apologies, just venting.

Yes, let’s expose the basterds by doing objective album reviews. Let’s name and shame the people committing these heinous atrocities!
1630087952397.jpeg


It worked for the hardware industry.. who knows it might work for the mastering as well.
 
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David Harper

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We can't do anything about it because the people doing the mastering and recording have no incentive to cater to a tiny minority of audiophiles (us).
They have no incentive because we don't mean anything in terms of profits. Their business model is about selling to the vast majority of music consumers who don't know or care anything about sound quality. And who can blame them? Everything in this country is about money. Has been for a long time. It's the dumbing down of everything.
 

Blumlein 88

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The biggest problem is with the mastering. snip........
We need to devote more attention to measuring compression artifacts on different releases. I know of only one guy who does that comparison.

How would you measure compression artifacts without the original recording as a reference?
 

Robin L

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I mostly listen to old stuff. It's mostly all old stuff, even when first released. That's inherent to recording: by playback time it's already past tense.

BTW, Rock & Roll officially died a few days ago, it's all over the internet.

So, I play back a David Byrne compilation of music from Brazil, probably 30 years old, ripped from my CD. With the equipment I'm using now, it simultaneously sounds the best it ever has and exposes the funky production of these recordings, some going back further than the mid-nineties, when this compilation as assembled.

Old Beck. Older Beatles. Old standbys. So, I'm mostly listening to productions that are older and everything is fine. Beatles remixes? Weird, but fine.

At least 50% of what I have been listening to is over 200 years old anyway.

I guess folks into new productions are SOL.

However, I suspect the current state of production reflects the market, such as it is, right now.
 
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rdenney

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Vieille Charité Marseille: picasso exhibition with a yellowish or semi-dark light, the Quai Branly Paris Museum in the semi-darkness, Dublin National Gallery ... three examples among many others.
No, those lighting systems are very carefully designed. But they are designed to fulfill different requirements based on different use cases and objectives than may be important to you.

The use case is "preservation" and that is the first duty of a museum. Both are part of the broader mission, but the "presenting to the public" use case is not the primary use case, and when the requirements for viewing conflict with the requirements for preservation, preservation will win every time.

Many artworks are subject to fading or other light-induced damage over time. So, preserving them requires 1.) presenting them to the public as little as is necessary to meet the broader mission, and 2.) using as little light as possible, and 3.) filtering out all possible UV (and since visible light filters are not brickwall filters any more than audio filters are, removing all possible UV is going to remove quite a bit of blue, too).

Rick "it's all about the objectives" Denney
 

rdenney

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...There will always be McDonalds which cannot serve up better food because they employ unskilled employees....
No, that's not the right characterization, it seems to me. McDonalds didn't serve up better food even before they used automation. But one thing about the automation--any given product from one McDonalds will taste nearly identical to the same product from a McDonalds on the other side of the planet. For better or worse.

No, McDonalds doesn't serve up better food because it doesn't want to. It's objective is not to serve great food. It's objective is to serve fast food cheaply to as many people as possible. Attaining that objective is why they have robotics and unskilled employees (among other things). While their food tastes poor to a skilled gourmet, kids beg for it, and drag their families there. Why? Because the food is sweet, salty, and savory, which excites the untrained taste buds. McDonalds is perfectly happy if no skilled gourmet ever enters the establishment, because there are too few of them to attain their objectives in any case. But I'm quite sure that if McDonalds decided to serve food that a trained gourmet might like, it could do so, even with automation and unskilled workers.

And that's why much pop music is over-autotuned, over-processed, too loud, too bland, too formulaic, and too much about showing skin in a video.

Rick "some music videos are better with the sound turned down" Denney
 

Sal1950

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t's the same complaint we have all had since Adam* was a boy.
Our reproduction gear became better than the artist's recording gear. We called them on it, and told them we expected more for our hard earned money. They gave us DMM, live to two track, then digital, live to two track digital, etc.
Don't forget the Hi Fi media has cut our throats. For many years they moaned about digital sounding bad in most every way you can think of. (untrue, but it sold expensive digital gear) Then came "vinyl revolution" (BLAH) with the magazines and web media telling folks if they want SOTA sound they gotta blow 5 to 6 digits on gear to play back a obsolete and extremely crippled technology. And all the sheep bought into the BS. Not only that but over the last 2 decades the BS has filtered down to JoeSixpack and the kids. You watch TV and about every 5th commercial has a turntable in the background of the set. So what did the record companies do, they put their best efforts on masters for LP cutting and selling LP's at crazy costs. The whole High Fidelity industry has shot themselfs in the head and don't even realize it. The business of commerce has turned SOTA High Fidelity upside down :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

I have a lot of first CD edition printed in the 80's
That's the great thing about CD's, you can go on ebay and usually find the edition you want and they still sound exactly like new.
 

danadam

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OTOH, I'm often impressed with movie soundtracks. Why does the mix/DR sound (generally) so much better than when I listen to the same track from CD or download (same hardware)?
I have the same with NPR's Tiny Desk Concert or KEXP on youtube. Their versions often seem so much better than what you can find on an official release.
 

Sal1950

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BTW, Rock & Roll officially died a few days ago, it's all over the internet.
Maybe, but I'm going to see Z Z Top in a few weeks and intend to have a hell of a good time. ;)
 

Sal1950

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Robin L

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No, that's not the right characterization, it seems to me. McDonalds didn't serve up better food even before they used automation. But one thing about the automation--any given product from one McDonalds will taste nearly identical to the same product from a McDonalds on the other side of the planet. For better or worse.

No, McDonalds doesn't serve up better food because it doesn't want to. It's objective is not to serve great food. It's objective is to serve fast food cheaply to as many people as possible. Attaining that objective is why they have robotics and unskilled employees (among other things). While their food tastes poor to a skilled gourmet, kids beg for it, and drag their families there. Why? Because the food is sweet, salty, and savory, which excites the untrained taste buds. McDonalds is perfectly happy if no skilled gourmet ever enters the establishment, because there are too few of them to attain their objectives in any case. But I'm quite sure that if McDonalds decided to serve food that a trained gourmet might like, it could do so, even with automation and unskilled workers.

And that's why much pop music is over-autotuned, over-processed, too loud, too bland, too formulaic, and too much about showing skin in a video.

Rick "some music videos are better with the sound turned down" Denney
 

Robin L

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That's was lack of Dynamic Range can do I guess...
My understanding was that it died a peaceful death due to natural causes.
 

Sal1950

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My understanding was that it died a peaceful death due to natural causes.
I suspect the true death won't occur till some time around 2050 when the last of us boomers have died off. :eek:
 

HiFidFan

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I have the same with NPR's Tiny Desk Concert or KEXP on youtube. Their versions often seem so much better than what you can find on an official release.

I was thinking the same earlier watching YouTube versions of "Live from Daryl's house". How can that sound better than CD's or streaming crap???

BBC's "Live Lounge" on you tube sounds good too.
 

restorer-john

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Not only that but over the last 2 decades the BS has filtered down to JoeSixpack and the kids. You watch TV and about every 5th commercial has a turntable in the background of the set.

That's so true, Sal.
 

restorer-john

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Wow, Dusty Hill gone.

Looks like I'll be having a few drinks and a loud tribute night tonight.
 
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