Are tubes more musical?

[Vacceo]

it's certainly a personal preference, and not universal. I like it, that's why i bought a tube amp setup. I know clean also, that is my main setup with Ncore amps now. But i do know that not everybody likes it and i don't think everybody should like it. But if you enjoy music more with a coloured (distorted) amp like a tube amp, why would you listen to the cleansound-fundamentalists. Just know what you get, why and why not. And never claim that a tube amp is superior to clean amps, because they are not. But i still enjoy them and you may also.

It is possible to love distortion, which is my case. I love it, but as part of the music material. No need to add extra.

None of our choices adds or detracts musicality from what we listen to.

 

[atmasphere]

What does musical even mean?

My interpretation and one frequently expressed by my customers is you can sit and listen all day and all night without listener fatigue and not think about how the system 'sounds'; IOW you just enjoy the music more.

 

[krabapple]

Topic noise added to ASR, is it musical?

 

[Vacceo]

My interpretation and one frequently expressed by my customers is you can sit and listen all day and all night without listener fatigue and not think about how the system 'sounds'; IOW you just enjoy the music more.

That does not adress the cause, only shows the sympthom. I assure you your customers will not last a full minute of Napalm Death, let alone an entire day.

However, if you tell me that in your experience, a certain set of frequencies up or down make many people enjoy the content more, then we are getting at something.

 

[atmasphere]

That does not adress the cause, only shows the sympthom. I assure you your customers will not last a full minute of Napalm Death, let alone an entire day.

One of my customers founded the metal scene in the Twin Cities (Earl Root, RIP).

His radio show on KFAI generated more funds to the station than any other program. Its still on, over a decade after his premature death due to cancer.

While I agree with your first statement, your second one is false.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

one of the top and very consistent answers is 'solid state is bright and harsh'.

I've worked in studios. Sound in a studio is much harsher and brighter than most HiFi systems reproduce.

Ask a guitar player about why they use tubes and a very common answer has to do with the 'sound' and how its smoother (IOW, not harsh)

That's irrelevant. Guitar playing usually involves overdriving the amplifier, which is exactly what we don't want to do at home.

 

[atmasphere]

I've worked in studios. Sound in a studio is much harsher and brighter than most HiFi systems reproduce.

That's irrelevant. Guitar playing usually involves overdriving the amplifier, which is exactly what we don't want to do at home.

I own a studio and have since I was in my 20s. Sorry about your experience; its not been that way in my studio or any I've been in.

These days most guitar players get their 'sound' from their pedals and don't overdrive the amp. But you might consider what happens when you over drive any amplifier- solid state amps, except for SIT based, hard clip. Tubes do not. This plays a role in home systems too - ask any tech that services loudspeakers about tweeters being fried.

 

[Waxx]

That's a sensible approach. I guess the original question still stands - can you argue that the sound you enjoy is "more musical"? If you can, what is it that's more musical?

What is more "musical"? It's a subjective term so what is more musical for me may be a vibe killer for you and reverse. So no clear definition i think...

 

[Vacceo]

One of my customers founded the metal scene in the Twin Cities (Earl Root, RIP).

His radio show on KFAI generated more funds to the station than any other program. Its still on, over a decade after his premature death due to cancer.

While I agree with your first statement, your second one is false.

I may be among the minority that loathes incredibly distorted music on tubes (think Blasphemy or early Sodom) but enjoys it on clean gear, even low quality demos.

No need to add chili on an already hot stew.

 

[atmasphere]

Earl turned me on to a fair bit of metal. He also played in several bands. Those recordings sound fine on good tube or solid state gear. Earl is playing guitar in this recording of Aesma Deava

 

[Vacceo]

Earl turned me on to a fair bit of metal. He also played in several bands. Those recordings sound fine on good tube or solid state gear. Earl is playing guitar in this recording of Aesma Deava

It's quite clean.

Try with this.

 

[Leporello]

But if you enjoy music more with a coloured (distorted) amp like a tube amp, why would you listen to the cleansound-fundamentalists.

Surely the point of enjoying the music is to enjoy the sound of music instead of the sound of your equipment?

 

[MAB]

My interpretation and one frequently expressed by my customers is you can sit and listen all day and all night without listener fatigue and not think about how the system 'sounds'; IOW you just enjoy the music more.

What is listener fatigue? It gets rolled out as a symptom of bad sound all the time. Since it gets used as data, it should be defined and quantified. Otherwise it's a smokescreen.

I don't see people going to doctor presenting chronic listener fatigue symptoms. I believe it does not actually exist in the context of good or bad sound reproduction. But unless it is defined, I can't prove a thing about it.

 

[oleg87]

The idea that faithfully reproducing a recording is "unmusical" is so obviously inane that I don't think it merits a response.

 

[Vacceo]

The idea that faithfully reproducing a recording is "unmusical" is so obviously inane that I don't think it merits a response.

The musicality or unmusicality, if such phenomena exist, are in the record, not in the gear.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

I own a studio and have since I was in my 20s. Sorry about your experience; its not been that way in my studio or any I've been in.

I should have been clearer. I've been in many studios with many different musicians and with other sources such as spoken voice.

I defy anyone to not get "listener fatigue" after being near a trombone player or rock drummer going flat out! Being near the brass section can be quite an amazing experience.

 

[ErVikingo]

What is listener fatigue? It gets rolled out as a symptom of bad sound all the time. Since it gets used as data, it should be defined and quantified. Otherwise it's a smokescreen.

I don't see people going to doctor presenting chronic listener fatigue symptoms. I believe it does not actually exist in the context of good or bad sound reproduction. But unless it is defined, I can't prove a thing about it.

I get you but I cant see how you can measure what my ears (or anyone else's) feel. For example I have some very good measuring DACs which tire my ears and also some not liked by the global ASR group that don't. I might be going nuts but that's what I have found. You might not agree but its not a smokescreen, to me its real. *and it happens when using my SS or my tube amps with my main, secondary speakers or tertiary speakers.

 

[Mikig]

for you is it sportier and therefore more engaging to drive, a car with a mid-engine or one with a front engine?
and if both had the same horsepower, say 600?
there is a logical and objective answer, but if users love 600 horsepower front-engine cars, what is wrong? what is there to prove?
it is the same difference that exists between tubes and SS.
There is an objective answer that would suggest the less noisy technology, with less distortion, with a greater frequency spectrum, with a greater dumpimg factor etc. ...
but then since we are not all the same and each of us has our own taste, the same question applies: what is wrong or to prove? musicality is absolutely subjective:
I could resist 1 minute in front of two monitors with 3 subwoofers, or in front of two horns with tubes or in the presence of the most perfect SS system.
De gustibus ... non disputandum est ...
It's not a problem! But you have to be able to take a step forward; objective data do not always go hand in hand with consumer taste. Everyone has their own preferences regardless of whether a choice is scientifically or technologically better.
It is not up to anyone to ask for proof of why someone else has a taste, which is a different matter instead of the technical or scientific disquisition that underlies the technology considered.
But such a scientific discussion then stops in front of the subjective senses that each person has.

 

[ErVikingo]

for you is it sportier and therefore more engaging to drive, a car with a mid-engine or one with a front engine?
and if both had the same horsepower, say 600?
there is a logical and objective answer, but if users love 600 horsepower front-engine cars, what is wrong? what is there to prove?
it is the same difference that exists between tubes and SS.
There is an objective answer that would suggest the less noisy technology, with less distortion, with a greater frequency spectrum, with a greater dumpimg factor etc. ...
but then since we are not all the same and each of us has our own taste, the same question applies: what is wrong or to prove? musicality is absolutely subjective:
I could resist 1 minute in front of two monitors with 3 subwoofers, or in front of two horns with tubes or in the presence of the most perfect SS system.
De gustibus ... non disputandum est ...
It's not a problem! But you have to be able to take a step forward; objective data do not always go hand in hand with consumer taste. Everyone has their own preferences regardless of whether a choice is scientifically or technologically better.
It is not up to anyone to ask for proof of why someone else has a taste, which is a different matter instead of the technical or scientific disquisition that underlies the technology considered.
But such a scientific discussion then stops in front of the subjective senses that each person has.

I own various mid engine cars. At a point in time owned 2 very similar ones (same V10 engine, same transmission, same chassis with different body and suspension settings; one made in Italy and one in Germany; seeing your location you will know). I prefer the german version and kept it (3 actually).

As you say, in matters of taste there can be no disputes

 

[ahofer]

The answer to the Topic Question is "no", until you have customized your definition of 'musical' beyond satire. But you may like them just the same.

As others have noted, some tube designs will change the frequency response and/or some may distort, even in a way you find pleasant. Or it may all be in your head. Neither of those things is 'more musical' any more than the amplifier buzz before musicians begin to play makes the concert experience more musical, rather than just triggering a happy sense of anticipation.