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I wouldn't recommend it.
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Are tubes more musical?
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Balle Clorin
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Until I move the capacitors I found desktop fan to do some extra cooling .You might want to give those electrolytics a little room to breathe vis-a-vis those power resistors.
Do NOT ask me why I offer this advice!
pop goes the bypass cap!
And this table allow free circulation since I removed the bottom plate too..!
Regarding the listening test, preferably a blind one, SS vs Tube. One of his children got sick (nothing serious) so there was no visiting or listening. It will take place sometime after Christmas and New Year instead.
Regardless of arguments over sound, tube amps with tube caps and whole lot of tube illumination is just so.. warming, especially in December.
1207241933 by drjlo2, on Flickr
Let's do a blind comparison of the 'warming' effect with my 200W pure class-A solid state monoblocksRegardless of arguments over sound, tube amps with tube caps and whole lot of tube illumination is just so.. warming, especially in December.
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It's the warmly delicious harmonic spectrum of the IR produced by those big power output tubes that matters!Let's do a blind comparison of the 'warming' effect with my 200W pure class-A solid state monoblocks
Yet in my NYC apartment in summer....Let's do a blind comparison of the 'warming' effect with my 200W pure class-A solid state monoblocks
genesisaudiorack
Active Member
ive found that solid state amps have a very unique "flattness" i have also found a couple high end solid state to be vibrant and exquisite, but they cost alot of money. hearing them in a nice listening room at a couple different local shops but they were also out of my price range at the time. tubes have a color to them, but i call it a natural color. depending on the tube used you can get more warmth of more crisp sound. maybe even improvements in volume and headroom and distortion. ideally id concede that the output transformer and the type of tube circuit used will essentially determine how open and airy it is along with the musicality. i have always preferred tube amps over solid state because of the simplistic art and function. i like kt150 for the soundstage and boom when i listen to my music system loud. where as i think they are great but not as great as other tube variations that usually run lower output wattage amps and they can be even more musical. i like el34 in quiet mode but i hated them in loud listening. i think with tube amps theres also a circuit to consider. my previous amp was very much so ultra linear and as much as i liked it, and enjoyed it, it wasn't what my ears liked. i felt like i was missing alot of music with gaps of vibrant in between. once i upgrade i heard everything i thought was missing with more detail and musicality. denser musical sections with clear representation between instruments. especially at higher volumes. it would take alot for me to switch to solid state.
Hehe... That amp is all metal heatsink, two of them weigh 260lbs, and both get nearly too hot to touch when at normal operating temperature. Perfect for a hot and humid summer in NYC
genesisaudiorack
Active Member
i forgot to mention, i also enjoy the heat off amps. mine will warm up a room in the winder to the point where i dont need to use my mini split. its all toasty in here.Hehe... That amp is all metal heatsink, two of them weigh 260lbs, and both get nearly too hot to touch when at normal operating temperature. Perfect for a hot and humid summer in NYC
Modern SS amps (3 decades or more) that are properly designed have zero sound signature of their own when operated in their linear design regions. They are transparent straight wires with gain.
There are many (specially those expensive ones) designed to add a particular tonal balance or distortion that sets them apart from the others but they are
bad designs, not better sounding amps.
"Amplifiers have been quite excellent for more than a few decades, offering few opportunities for engineering breakthroughs. There are significant differences in topology, measured specifications, physical design, and cosmetics, not to mention price, but the sound of all properly designed units is basically the same. The biggest diversity is in power supplies, ranging from barely adequate to ridiculously overdesigned. That may or may not affect the sound quality, depending on the impedance characteristics and efficiency of the loudspeaker. The point is that, unless the amplifier has serious design errors or is totally mismatched to a particular speaker, the sound you will hear is the sound of the speaker, not the amplifier. As for the future, I think it belongs to highly refined class D amplifiers, such as Bang & Olufsen’s ICEpower modules and Bruno Putzeys’s modular Hypex designs, compact and efficient enough to be incorporated in powered loudspeakers. The free-standing power amplifier will slowly become history, except perhaps as an audiophile affectation. What about vacuum-tube designs? If you like second-harmonic distortion, output transformers, and low damping factors, be my guest. (Can you imagine a four-way powered loudspeaker driven by vacuum-tube modules?)"
Peter Aczel"
You are more than welcome to prefer the sound of any type distortion that pleases you.
But the goal of High Fidelity engineering has always been to reproduce the sound of the source as accurately as possible.
Not add some pleasant distortion or tonal changes.
Here's what Amir, owner of this site wrote on tube amps a few weeks back and is the position of this scientific based site.
"And (solid state) sounds better too. I have tested a number of tube amps and have listened to probably 100+ at shows and friend's houses. I have never, ever heard it sound better than solid state. I have however, found tube amps to sound much worse many times. The sound is routinely muddy and if you crank up the volume, it can get distorted in a hurry."
PrimaLuna Dialogue Three Preamp Review
I don’t trust Stereophile measurements, or any other rags since they have huge conflict of interest as they are paid by these manufacturers through advertising and receive hand selected units from these manufacturers! I mostly agree but when it comes to his measurements John wouldn't dare fudge...
www.audiosciencereview.com
genesisaudiorack
Active Member
yes you are right there are some very very transparent solid state units. thats why i mentioned tubes give a color of such. but not all solid state sounds good to me in my opinion.Modern SS amps (3 decades or more) that are properly designed have zero sound signature of their own when operated in their linear design regions. They are transparent straight wires with gain.
There are many (specially those expensive ones) designed to add a particular tonal balance or distortion that sets them apart from the others but they are
bad designs, not better sounding amps.
"Amplifiers have been quite excellent for more than a few decades, offering few opportunities for engineering breakthroughs. There are significant differences in topology, measured specifications, physical design, and cosmetics, not to mention price, but the sound of all properly designed units is basically the same. The biggest diversity is in power supplies, ranging from barely adequate to ridiculously overdesigned. That may or may not affect the sound quality, depending on the impedance characteristics and efficiency of the loudspeaker. The point is that, unless the amplifier has serious design errors or is totally mismatched to a particular speaker, the sound you will hear is the sound of the speaker, not the amplifier. As for the future, I think it belongs to highly refined class D amplifiers, such as Bang & Olufsen’s ICEpower modules and Bruno Putzeys’s modular Hypex designs, compact and efficient enough to be incorporated in powered loudspeakers. The free-standing power amplifier will slowly become history, except perhaps as an audiophile affectation. What about vacuum-tube designs? If you like second-harmonic distortion, output transformers, and low damping factors, be my guest. (Can you imagine a four-way powered loudspeaker driven by vacuum-tube modules?)"
Peter Aczel"
You are more than welcome to prefer the sound of any type distortion that pleases you.
But the goal of High Fidelity engineering has always been to reproduce the sound of the source as accurately as possible.
Not add some pleasant distortion or tonal changes.
Here's what Amir, owner of this site wrote on tube amps a few weeks back and is the position of this scientific based site.
"And (solid state) sounds better too. I have tested a number of tube amps and have listened to probably 100+ at shows and friend's houses. I have never, ever heard it sound better than solid state. I have however, found tube amps to sound much worse many times. The sound is routinely muddy and if you crank up the volume, it can get distorted in a hurry."
PrimaLuna Dialogue Three Preamp Review
I don’t trust Stereophile measurements, or any other rags since they have huge conflict of interest as they are paid by these manufacturers through advertising and receive hand selected units from these manufacturers! I mostly agree but when it comes to his measurements John wouldn't dare fudge...
for the exact reason related to my last amp i noticed distortion at higher volumes thus i got rid of it. however i have to stand on the fact that if you buy a tube amp and plan to run it at high volumes you are going to get distortion even in mild volumes. i think the trick is if you have high resolution speakers that can shine these artifacts you really need to get a higher wattage amp and not run the amp that high. achieving loud volumes at way less than the amps capabilities. i find this often is a sweet spot. hell i went from 80 watts (advertised) running kt150 tubes to straight 200w kt150 tube amp and i can regularly get very loud spl and clear volume with no distortion before taking my amps to the upper limits. i agree and have heard with my own ears the muddy sound with tube amps when they get cranked. i dont so much hear anything but the tonal qualities of the circuit at mild to lower volumes. but at mid to high volumes you can really hear how clear a amp is.
Blumlein 88
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If the power ratings were accurate the difference in the two amps at power is about 4 decibels. 4 decibels isn't a dramatic sound level increase.
genesisaudiorack
Active Member
within terms of clarity it is.
Blumlein 88
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Only if one is highly distorted and with 4 db more to work with it is not. While possible, that would be knife's edge. One thing about most tube amps circuits is they don't go from clean to highly distorted over as narrow a range. Another is you would have to be playing all of your music near that edge for it to generally be true. Not enough is not enough while enough is enough. I've used some rather inefficient speakers and at times didn't have the power I wanted. I naturally sacrificed a little volume to avoid really nasty sound.
this little guy made me fall back into tubes.
In my system it has found its permanent place. I made a couple of adjustments: I bypassed the volume potentiometers, it can also be used as an integrated, but I discovered that even in “direct” function the signal still passed through the volume.
I changed all the tubes, nothing exotic, but only its corresponding ones, new, and I soldered the output connectors on the transformer on 4 ohms, having the internal option 4,8,16, and using 4 ohm speakers.
What can I say: it is truly musical!!! not that the other amplifiers I have at SS are not, but it is subjectively very pleasant.
So much so that my main system has been sadly off for a couple of months.
Call it pleasant distortion, call it tube warmth, call it musicality, call it visual effect, whatever you want, but when I turn it on and then I don't want to turn it off I can certainly say that to my ears like my system so composed!
MattHooper
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Nice looking amp!
Awesome.
Yeah, for me once I “discovered” tube amps there was no going back.
Awesome.
Yeah, for me once I “discovered” tube amps there was no going back.
Jim Taylor
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No. In terms of "sound character", it is.
This is the blurb on the development of the Stereophile "simulated loudspeaker load": https://www.stereophile.com/content/real-life-measurements-page-2
This is what happens when a tube amp tried to drive that circuit: https://www.stereophile.com/content/air-tight-atm-1-2024-edition-power-amplifier-measurements
And it can get much worse: https://www.stereophile.com/content/zesto-bia-200-select-power-amplifier-measurements
These are what you hear when you listen to a normal, everyday speaker driven by a "boutique" tube amp. The dips in response at certain frequencies, coupled with the peaks in response at other frequencies can easily amount to a 2-or-3 dB relative difference.
That's going to be audible. It will sound "different". Not necessarily better or worse, but "different". Different from your solid-state amp, different from your friends' amps. The peaks will stand out as dominant. Your cognitive bias will kick into high gear, and those peaks will sound artificially as if they had "clarity".
But within a period of time, your brain will acclimate ... it will adjust. Then, the so-called "clarity" will lessen or disappear.
Then what? Time for new tubes? Time for a new amp? If you have vinyl, maybe time for a new cartridge?
How about getting a system that is as neutral as you can afford in the first place, and if you want frequency response deviations, do it with DSP. Then disable the DSP if there's a recording for which you find it less than useful.
Then you can concentrate on the MUSIC instead of the equipment!
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yes, it has its charm.
I bought it by chance: my friend the shopkeeper understood that to make me buy he has to give me devices that I can take home and listen to calmly, now he always tricks me.... he knows I can't resist, and for every two devices, I keep one!!!
Anyway, I was immediately impressed.... so much so that I'm looking for the two mono ones, of the same brand, slightly more powerful; my speakers are difficult, but in a small room the result is very pleasant for me...
MattHooper
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Then what? Time for new tubes? Time for a new amp? If you have vinyl, maybe time for a new cartridge?
How about getting a system that is as neutral as you can afford in the first place, and if you want frequency response deviations, do it with DSP. Then disable the DSP if there's a recording for which you find it less than useful.
Then you can concentrate on the MUSIC instead of the equipment!
People have different ways of lighting their own fire.
Plenty of audiophiles like to think about and fiddle with gear, whether that’s reading about gear, measuring their own gear or other gear, fiddling with their system to try and get it exactly as they want, learning to build or repair gear, diy speakers and amps, music servers… tube amps … and whatever. we’re going to find a way of still thinking about the gear (even if it’s posting on an audio forum about it ) and fiddling.
In this case, someone may simply prefer playing with tube amps and different tubes (and turntables and cartridges..) to fiddling with DSP, which doesn’t give the same experience.
It’s like a photographer saying to the painter: “ why don’t you just take a photograph?”
Kind of misses the point.
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