Are they just selling the same driver several times? (Fostex TH-610)

[Dazerdoreal]

The Fostex TH-610 was the first (I think) of several high-end headphones with a remarkably similar frequency response. Some are sold for 300, others are sold for like 1500. It is a good headphone, dont get me wrong.

I am talking about the
Fostex TH900,
Fostex TH909,
E-Mu Teak,
Denon AH-5200,
Denon AH-7200,
Denon AH-9200.

So I began to wonder if these all contain the same drivers and just slightly differently pads & damping, because that is what it looks like. The bass and the treble response always looks almost exactly the same. Differences mainly occur around 1k and in the upper treble, and even there there are certain parellels when it comes to the positions of their peaks & dips.

Besides, also the design of these headphones are very similar. Sometimes the cups are bamboo, sometimes they are Teak, but..

I normalized the frequency response down below on 5000hz in order to make the similarities clearer.

 

[asrUser]

You got to read a bunch of threads on Head-Fi to know the drivers are not the same. Yeah those headphones share some similarities, but there are reasons they're not priced the same. Read the descriptions and you know the TH9xx drivers are 1,5 Tesla while all others are 1 Tesla.

 

[Deleted member 60987]

The Fostex TH-610 was the first (I think) of several high-end headphones with a remarkably similar frequency response. Some are sold for 300, others are sold for like 1500. It is a good headphone, dont get me wrong.

I am talking about the
Fostex TH900,
Fostex TH909,
E-Mu Teak,
Denon AH-5200,
Denon AH-7200,
Denon AH-9200.

So I began to wonder if these all contain the same drivers and just slightly differently pads & damping, because that is what it looks like. The bass and the treble response always looks almost exactly the same. Differences mainly occur around 1k and in the upper treble, and even there there are certain parellels when it comes to the positions of their peaks & dips.

Besides, also the design of these headphones are very similar. Sometimes the cups are bamboo, sometimes they are Teak, but..

I normalized the frequency response down below on 5000hz in order to make the similarities clearer.

Well remember, they have to retool every time they use different parts. So yes, some companies probably put primo shit in cheaper headphones because they dont want to start from scratch on cheaper models. They may save money on crappy builds but give you good drivers. As an example, I've owned a Corolla, Camry and Avalon. Do you think they use ****** engine parts in the Carolla? Mine went 209,000 before I traded it in. They save on nonessentials. The Avalon had JBL speakers, a 5 CD changer, a bunch of luxuries. In fact the subwoofer blew out at one point (probably from drying out) and I think it was $300. I reconned it for $30 with a kit and it was good as new. But my Prius sure doesn't have a $300 JBL subwoofer. The sound system is crap. Maybe I should replace some of it.

 

[Shazb0t]

If you're interested in this family of biocellulose driver headphones I would advise you to save some money and buy the removable cable version of the E-MU Teak. IMO, it's the best tuned headphone from this family.

E-MU Teak Review (Headphone)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the E-MU Teak closed back headphone. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $500 with the removable cable that I tested. I must say, as a woodworker, I have a soft spot for anything made out of wood with nice figure: Even if you are not a...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Nich]

The E-MU Teak and Bamboo versions are available now on DROP (set to drop on May 26, 2023). Teaks are $450 and Bamboo is $400.
To answer the PO's question, the Denons hit the market first (but were made by Fostex). When Denon dropped the AH-D X000's line, Fostex started selling the basic design under their own name. I know for a fact that the Denon AH-D 2000 and AH-D5000 shared the same drivers and the AH-D7000 was supposed to be a bit bigger but I could not tell a difference from looking at them. MSRP was around $299 for the D2000, $499 for the D5000, and $999 for the D7000. All three headphones were basically the same and had identical metal frames and pleather ear pads, and the D5000 and D7000 had wooden ear cups. Was the price difference between models justified ? In my opinion no. But when purchased at sale prices the cost difference was easier to digest. I paid $198, $359, and $639 respectively. The Fostex headphones follow the same formula with their models. I have had or heard them all. I currently still have two D2000s, a D7000, a Fostex, and an E-MU Teak. One D2000 and the D7000 have the Lawton Audio's Level 1 mods with the Lawton Audio ear pads. These are/were great headphones. The modified D2000 is dead neutral with perfect attack and decay (to my ears anyways), punchy percussions, well defined base, great soundstage, any very dynamic. The modified D7000 sounds about the same just a little warmer. The E-MU teaks sounds great as is with a little more emphasis on the upper base/lower mids. These will stay stock. I have concluded that there is no reason to spend more than $500 on any headphone. A well made headphone can be modified or corrected with EQ or equipped with angle ear pads to increase soundstage. The dynamic speaker has been around since Alexander Graham Bell invented the telephone. It is now the 21st century and don't you think that all types of exotic driver material has been tested to date ? Manufactures add bells and whistles and promises of increased sonic fidelity to increase headphone prices. Do those high costs headphones sound better ? I believe they don't, they just sound different and any decently designed headphone can be modified to the sound that pleases you. An example is the Hifiman HE400SE (yes, I have way to many headphones) that are currently selling for $109 on Amazon. These sound incredible right out of the box and take EQ well and modifications to suit your tastes. Stay away from the high cost headphones and put your money into better DAC's and Amps. One more item, and this is just my opinion, but I believe that the Hifiman HE400SE has made all Sennheiser headphones obsolete !

 

[solderdude]

I normalized the frequency response down below on 5000hz in order to make the similarities clearer.

I see differences of 10dB in the mids. That is extremely audible and not likely to be caused by some difference in porting only.
They might well use a similar looking frame and similar looking membrane material but that does not mean the membrane is the same nor the damping of it.
It is also smart to copy a frame that works from a financial p.o.v. Unfortunately this also meant the mechanical flaws were copied (hinges).
The only way to test the hypothesis of sharing the same driver would be to swap drivers only between models.

When you compare a bunch of hifiman headphones you will see even more likeness between those models even in looks.

I believe that the Hifiman HE400SE has made all Sennheiser headphones obsolete !

Not to me but that's just my opinion.
In the HE400SE price-class I would agree though.