Are there any significant upgrades to the Revel M16's under 4k?

[BingaMoon]

I'm looking for a passive speaker under 4k (hopefully under 3k although unlikely) that is a significant upgrade to the M16's. Based on my readings even up to the Revel F206's isn't really worth the upgrade if you already have a pair of M16's.

 

[jonfitch]

I would imagine the extra bass would make a big difference, especially since Harman's research weights bass response somewhere in the 35% range for the average listener.

 

[Aventador_SVJ]

I'm looking for a passive speaker under 4k (hopefully under 3k although unlikely) that is a significant upgrade to the M16's. Based on my readings even up to the Revel F206's isn't really worth the upgrade if you already have a pair of M16's.

I've just purchased the Revel F206's and whilst I looked at the M106's (similar to your M16s), there were 2 issues:
1) The new speakers were for my living room and no bookshelf would ever look aesthetically right with the correct amount of WAF
2) Whilst I have a subwoofer, I would prefer to have the main speakers that go as low as possible - the F206 are flat in-room to nearly 30Hz and no Revel bookshelf has such a good low frequency response.

I am overwhelmed with the Revels and whilst the low frequency response isn't quite on par with the speakers they replaced (Focal Cobalt 816S), they are wonderful in every way.

The Focal's are now used in my dining room and whilst great, the Revel F206's are sublime and look amazing in white.

All setups use Dirac full range DSP with a Harman Target curve.

 

[dwkdnvr]

Honestly, if you're in an audio-only system rather than in an HT with subs, consider looking at a pair of Rythmik FM8s to go with your Revels. Turns them into full-range tower speakers. Under $2.5k so not the cheapest upgrade, but provides all the bass you're likely to want/need for a music system and leaves open the upgrade path to better or at least different monitors down the road.

 

[Ron Texas]

I'm looking for a passive speaker under 4k (hopefully under 3k although unlikely) that is a significant upgrade to the M16's. Based on my readings even up to the Revel F206's isn't really worth the upgrade if you already have a pair of M16's.

How do you define a significant upgrade? Adding a pair of subs is a significant upgrade. Rythmik L12's are only $559 each and they made a huge difference when added to LS50's in my house. But, integrating subs isn't extremely easy because the mains have to be rolled off and possibly even delayed.

 

[Elfsberg]

Revel 206 every day of the week.

 

[warthor]

I think the Revel F208 would be your best bet. Dealers will offer prices well below retail on this so this is well within your budget.

 

[Steve Dallas]

At this point, I would concentrate on the room, leveraging treatment and DRC. Consider an upgrade after tackling that important aspect of sound reproduction.

 

[sdiver68]

I own a M16 set-up and an F226be set-up (as my main system). The f226bes are clearly better speakers directly compared, but I would say this: fine-tuned, the M16s come close--to the point that I could happily live with them as my main speakers. Fine-tuning them is key. I cannot stress DSP enough, especially for the M16s, which move away from the Harman curve with the bass boost at around 100Hz. They are speakers that need to be cleaned up down low. Bring down any out of control modes and fill in any drop outs with a decent sub. Correct above 400Hz minimally. (I recommend DIRAC.) You'll be 95% there with that. That is more than good enough.

As far as extra bass: in my family room, I get only about 15Hz more bass with the F226bes. If you have the M16s close to a wall, they produce a lot more bass than you'd think. (See attached graph.) However, I think the "quality" of the bass is different. The F226bes activate the room differently because of the difference in woofer location and number. In another thread someone mentioned that having two woofers, one on top of the other, accounts for the difference in room modes. Looking at my graphs I would have to agree. See 45-60Hz and 150-200Hz. This seems to be one of the real benefits of a full sized speaker over a book shelf. But again, this is where a sub would help make up the difference. Unless you have a pretty large room, a simple Rythmik L12 would do wonders.

LFX aside, I'm amazed the mid to high frequency responses are practically clones of 1 another.

I've not had the pleasure of listening to any Be but what objective measurement would show their subjective superiority?

 

[Elfsberg]

Easy.
Beryllium has higher density.
Compare paper to metal cones.

 

[minnend]

I bought Philharmonic BMR monitors over Revel M16 (and M105 / M106) a few years ago and am happy with the choice. Then I recently purchased a 2-way design from Philharmonic when building a second system. That's starting from scratch, though, and I bought the speakers used which significantly boosted their quality-vs-price ratio.

I suspect the BMRs provide a significant improvement in bass and many prefer the sound of the RAAL tweeter to the Revel dome (highly subjective, though). The BMR *towers* are also in your budget, barely, which should provide a significant improvement over the M16s unless you have high-quality, well-integrated subs.

As others have said, the M16s are solid so the best bang-for-your-buck will be room correction and subs. M16s aren't really end game speakers, but I do agree with your implicit argument that they already take you pretty deep into diminishing returns territory.

I also like the KEF R3 when they run sales for $1699/pr (currently at Best Buy and often through KEF directly). I'd take that over an M16, but I don't know if they qualify as a *significant upgrade* if you already own the M16s.

Bottom line: focus on subs and room correction, and if you really want new speakers, the best *value* comes from the used market.

 

[Liya]

I own a M16 set-up and an F226be set-up (as my main system). The f226bes are clearly better speakers directly compared, but I would say this: fine-tuned, the M16s come close--to the point that I could happily live with them as my main speakers. Fine-tuning them is key. I cannot stress DSP enough, especially for the M16s, which move away from the Harman curve with the bass boost at around 100Hz. They are speakers that need to be cleaned up down low. Bring down any out of control modes and fill in any drop outs with a decent sub. Correct above 400Hz minimally. (I recommend DIRAC.) You'll be 95% there with that. That is more than good enough.

As far as extra bass: in my family room, I get only about 15Hz more bass with the F226bes. If you have the M16s close to a wall, they produce a lot more bass than you'd think. (See attached graph.) However, I think the "quality" of the bass is different. The F226bes activate the room differently because of the difference in woofer location and number. In another thread someone mentioned that having two woofers, one on top of the other, accounts for the difference in room modes. Looking at my graphs I would have to agree. See 45-60Hz and 150-200Hz. This seems to be one of the real benefits of a full sized speaker over a book shelf. But again, this is where a sub would help make up the difference. Unless you have a pretty large room, a simple Rythmik L12 would do wonders.

Are these measurements from the listening position? After correction or before?

 

[USER]

Are these measurements from the listening position? After correction or before?

Listening position, before correction.

 

[Steve Dallas]

Listening position, before correction.

Do you mind reposting the measurements with our standard 50dB range on the Y axis?

 

[USER]

Do you mind reposting the measurements with our standard 50dB range on the Y axis?

 

[warthor]

At this point, I would concentrate on the room, leveraging treatment and DRC. Consider an upgrade after tackling that important aspect of sound reproduction.

What is the best way to add full range room correction to a Yamaha Receiver (3070A)?

Edit: Yamaha room correct (YPAO) is not very good. Therefore, I am wondering if I can somehow add dirac or something to my current system.

 

[Steve Dallas]

What is the best way to add full range room correction to a Yamaha Receiver (3070A)?

Edit: Yamaha room correct (YPAO) is not very good. Therefore, I am wondering if I can somehow add dirac or something to my current system.

What are you using for a source, digital or analog pathway, and do you want to add DRC to more than one source? MiniDSP makes a few products that could work in adding Dirac to your system.

 

[warthor]

What are you using for a source, digital or analog pathway, and do you want to add DRC to more than one source? MiniDSP makes a few products that could work in adding Dirac to your system.

Thanks! It would be for a smart TV (LG) through HDMI and a Blu Ray Player, also through HDMI. (maybe also for a gaming system or so)

 

[warthor]

It is probably worth noting here that the KEF Reference Series on the used market is being sold at approximately 50% of retail value (because of the recent Meta update). If you can find the Reference 1 for around $4000-$5000 that would be a great upgrade, too (though I agree with others regarding room correction).