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Are There Any Good Remasters?

GDK

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I have been trying to download CD versions of a bunch of the MP3s and/or LPs I have acquired over the years. However, so many classic albums are now only available as 2000s remixes.

I have not heard any good remixes. Have you?

Also, are there any remixes that we should all avoid? I hated to remix of Depeche Mode’s Violator, which seemed to lack all of the emotion that I remember (although this is entirely subjective and based on my university memories, which are “clouded” at best).

Appreciate anyone else’s view.
 

Taxi

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I don't mean to be pedantic, but I think you mean "Are there any good remasters".

I have several albums of remixes from my favorite artists that I enjoy. In some cases, I enjoy the remix more than the original.
 
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GDK

GDK

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I don't mean to be pedantic, but I think you mean "Are there any good remasters".
Yes, you are probably correct. I will edit the thread title, but I have not heard any that were better than the original. I blame the loudness wars, but maybe it’s just unlucky on my part.

But do we really need all of David Bowie’s albums remastered?
 

Francis Vaughan

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You can get remixes, remasters, and a whole mess in between. It depends what your definition of "mastering" means as well.

A zillion years ago, the "master tape" was the final product of mixing. There was only one. From that one tape, copies were made that were send to the pressing plants to create acetate masters, then a "father", from which "mothers" were made, from which stampers are created and LPs were pressed. The creation of the pressing acetate master is itself a process during which the audio may be further processed. That processing of the master tape audio into a form best suited to the reproduction chain has since become known itself as "mastering." In the glory days of vinyl "mastering" as a separate process didn't really exist. Reproduction onto cassette tape was another chain, but the quality was worse than vinyl.
Enter digital, and for a time, a dual stream of reproduction was involved, and the audio mix suited to LP format was found to be wanting when it came to CD. Implicit knowledge used to make the result sound good on LP, taking into account its limitations sounded awful on CD. So we got "remastering" of the product. This was usually a matter of going to the master tape, and creating a reproduction "master" that suited digital.
Nowadays "mastering" is a separate step, usually done by a different engineer than the one responsible for the mixing, and takes the final mixdown, and applies frequency response tweaks and compression to the mix to create the final product for reproduction. Here is where the loudness wars were implemented.

In principle it is possible, at least for many recordings, to go back to the original mix, and create a new "mastering" that, for instance, does not have the worst horrors of the loudness wars. But it could go the other way. Someone might decide that a classic recording needs more pump and slam, and they wreck it. YMMV.

But we can go further back. Many recordings live on with their original tracking tapes in a vault somewhere. A 2inch multitrack behemoth, with all the original sound before mixing. There are a number of possibilities that may happen. The most interesting from a sound quality point of view is that we can extract better quality audio off the multitrack tape than was ever extracted before. The key is that we can digitise with enough bandwidth to see the bias signal on the tape. That gives us a known clock. Errors in tape speed can be corrected, and even better, scrape flutter can be corrected. As the tape runs past the heads it scrapes slightly, and this imposes a semi-random speed variation on the tape speed (flutter). This means the original recording had scrape flutter welded into it from day one. And subsequent replay just added more. But it is now possible to remove it. Careful analysis of tape formulations, head response and the like mean better sound than was ever heard since the moment of recording is available.
So you need to mix that down again. Neatly the big mixing desks usually had automation of the mixing levels, and the control signal may be available on the tape. So some recordings contain the most important aspects of the mixing too. But it is a remix. The remix may try to be as close to the original as possible, or someone might want to mess with it. But the potential exists for a new release of superlative quality.

Going back to the master tape and removing scrape flutter also helps, but you are still stuck with the previous generations so the result isn't as good as removing all scrape flutter.

Much depends on what sort of music you enjoy. Depeche Mode was one I never got into.
 
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GDK

GDK

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You can get remixes, remasters, and a whole mess in between. It depends what your definition of "mastering" means as well.

A zillion years ago, the "master tape" was the final product of mixing. There was only one. From that one tape, copies were made that were send to the pressing plants to create acetate masters, then a "father", from which "mothers" were made, from which stampers are created and LPs were pressed. The creation of the pressing acetate master is itself a process during which the audio may be further processed. That processing of the master tape audio into a form best suited to the reproduction chain has since become known itself as "mastering." In the glory days of vinyl "mastering" as a separate process didn't really exist. Reproduction onto cassette tape was another chain, but the quality was worse than vinyl.
Enter digital, and for a time, a dual stream of reproduction was involved, and the audio mix suited to LP format was found to be wanting when it came to CD. Implicit knowledge used to make the result sound good on LP, taking into account its limitations sounded awful on CD. So we got "remastering" of the product. This was usually a matter of going to the master tape, and creating a reproduction "master" that suited digital.
Nowadays "mastering" is a separate step, usually done by a different engineer than the one responsible for the mixing, and takes the final mixdown, and applies frequency response tweaks and compression to the mix to create the final product for reproduction. Here is where the loudness wars were implemented.

In principle it is possible, at least for many recordings, to go back to the original mix, and create a new "mastering" that, for instance, does not have the worst horrors of the loudness wars. But it could go the other way. Someone might decide that a classic recording needs more pump and slam, and they wreck it. YMMV.

But we can go further back. Many recordings live on with their original tracking tapes in a vault somewhere. A 2inch multitrack behemoth, with all the original sound before mixing. There are a number of possibilities that may happen. The most interesting from a sound quality point of view is that we can extract better quality audio off the multitrack tape than was ever extracted before. The key is that we can digitise with enough bandwidth to see the bias signal on the tape. That gives us a known clock. Errors in tape speed can be corrected, and even better, scrape flutter can be corrected. As the tape runs past the heads it scrapes slightly, and this imposes a semi-random speed variation on the tape speed (flutter). This means the original recording had scrape flutter welded into it from day one. And subsequent replay just added more. But it is now possible to remove it. Careful analysis of tape formulations, head response and the like mean better sound than was ever heard since the moment of recording is available.
So you need to mix that down again. Neatly the big mixing desks usually had automation of the mixing levels, and the control signal may be available on the tape. So some recordings contain the most important aspects of the mixing too. But it is a remix. The remix may try to be as close to the original as possible, or someone might want to mess with it. But the potential exists for a new release of superlative quality.

Going back to the master tape and removing scrape flutter also helps, but you are still stuck with the previous generations so the result isn't as good as removing all scrape flutter.

Much depends on what sort of music you enjoy. Depeche Mode was one I never got into.
Thank you for that response - that was great. I think I am coming at it from the fact that a lot of classic albums have now been remastered and my guess is that this has been done (apart from the general desire of record companies to make money from the same piece of music) is to make them sound better to “modern listeners” (i.e. people who listen on their phones or via smart speakers). In the process of this, the tracks are become more compressed and less listenable. It seems to be hard to able to find a non-remastered version of a lot of albums.

Presumably, at some point, the record companies will start to sell their “original masters” at a significant premium to the remastered price...
 

DuxServit

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Deutsche Grammophon has a number of good ones out on blu-ray discs. Many are a great improvement over the previous CD versions.
 

Sal1950

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There are tons of awesome sounding remasters out there, most with improved detail and frequency extension. Many box sets coming with not only the remaster but flat version of the original mix, 5.1 multich mixes and much more.
But if your only intent was to crab about the DR wars, we have plenty of threads already here for that.
 
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GDK

GDK

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There are tons of awesome sounding remasters out there, most with improved detail and frequency extension. Many box sets coming with not only the remaster but flat version of the original mix, 5.1 multich mixes and much more.
But if your only intent was to crab about the DR wars, we have plenty of threads already here for that.
No, it was a genuine question. I have a 2.2 system and, in my experience, I haven’t found that the remasters I have listened to sounded better than the originals, but I admitted in the OP that it‘s hard to do a comparison. Plus, I invited people to give examples of remasters that were better than the original, so I‘m not sure what was “crabby” about it.
 

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Talking heads the brick box ? It's very similar in many ways to the originals very ligth hand involved in this , that's good :) They have added new 5.1 DVDA tracks and outakes and alternative versions to every album.

The content is Talking Heads 8 original studio albums.

Jerry Harrison himself was involved in the process of making this.
 

Sal1950

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Well skip the DR discussion, that's been beat to death. You gave no clue about your genre preferences but try anything done by,
Steven Wilson or Alan Parsons, that should give you a few from classic rock to play with.
 

Francis Vaughan

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but try anything done by,
Steven Wilson
Yeah, I was going to mention the King Crimson reworkings, but given the OP was talking Depeche Mode, wasn't sure it would be much of a fit.
There seems to be a slow trend for quite worthwhile re-releases occurring.
 

LTig

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Well skip the DR discussion, that's been beat to death. You gave no clue about your genre preferences but try anything done by,
Steven Wilson or Alan Parsons, that should give you a few from classic rock to play with.
See also the box remasters of Genesis.
 

LTig

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The 1997 remaster of Wagners Ring by Solti is better than the vinyl and the first CD pressing.
 

valerianf

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If you have Amazon music HD you will find many re-mastered versions that are amazing (HD or UHD quality).
They never existed as CD or vinyl.
 

Matias

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Ayreon remixes are way better than the originals. I also like the Steven Wilson remixes of Yes better than the originals. Also the latest Sgt. Peppers by The Beatles.

Unfortunately these are the exceptions, usually remasters are worse.
 

LTig

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Pluto

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Neatly the big mixing desks usually had automation of the mixing levels, and the control signal may be available on the tape. So some recordings contain the most important aspects of the mixing too.
Forgive my intervention: the only control signal that would appear on the tape is the timecode which was the basis for the synchronization between the tape position and the mixing computer. The actual mix data was, for quite a time, stored on floppy disks then, latterly, on a hard drive. For records mixed in the “golden age”, only those made in the most expensive studios of the day would have been blessed with the (then) rare gift of computer assisted mixing. Although the (typically) 8" floppies would usually have been kept with the multitrack tapes, the chances of them being of any use these days are slim indeed. How many automated mix installations from the eighties have survived to this day and retained working floppy drives? And even if all the foregoing obstacles were overcome, you still need to solve the problem of mapping the automation to today's console i.e. while the simple levels of tracks 1 to 23 might be simple enough to map, things like the echo return faders would only have been "true" for the installation in which the automation was recorded.

Commercially, one of the biggest reasons to make the massive investment in automated mixing was that it more or less ensured that the mixing, once started at your facility, could not easily transfer elsewhere.
 

Francis Vaughan

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the only control signal that would appear on the tape is the timecode which was the basis for the synchronization between the tape position and the mixing computer. The actual mix data was, for quite a time, stored on floppy disks then, latterly, on a hard drive.
Ah, that makes a great deal of sense. Makes the entire chain much more realistic given the technology.
Mapping back the encoding would be a pain, but not technically challenging. Working floppy drives are not that difficult. There is a surprising amount of old data that there is a need to recover from old media and people capable of getting it back for you. I have a range of ancient devices in my own junk collection that could be pressed into service. I know where to find 8" floppy drives. But I'm a computer geek.
 
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