Are there any amplifiers you can recommend that are 300W or higher in the $5,000 to $10,000 range?

[Blumlein 88]

And I can really distinguish sounds well. Let's just say I can and move on. This is a problem that can't be solved without meeting in person and making a judgment.

Actually this can be solved. You don't realize you are making a claim the equivalent to saying you can flap your arms and fly like a bird. I don't need to meet in person to know that is a false claim.

 

[Chrispy]

Right. I can't say that I made a proper judgment in that short time. I might have misheard because of my fixed idea or placebo effect.

But what I hear is the most important to me. Of course the specs are important. Of course the measurement values are important too. These two factors can be the criteria for choosing a good product.

No matter how good others say it is, if I'm not satisfied, it's useless. So I have to listen to it and try to choose a product that I'm satisfied with.

Of course, I understand your thoughts that such tests are meaningless. However, most people who buy very expensive hi-fi products pay their money through such meaningless acts. No one buys a product without listening to the sound or comparing it.

Even if it's B&W or McIntosh, they buy it after listening to it.

And one thing I want to say is that if you listen to music with the most expensive products of all the super-expensive brands, such as the new Wilson Audio WAMM, the sound difference is significant even if you change just one interconnect cable. In other words, because the change is big, it's easier to compare. Then, can you say that comparing the differences between preamps in this system is completely meaningless? No, there is a difference.

No matter how much people are mistaken, delusional, and fixed-minded, if there is a difference, they should be able to feel it, and for those who can't feel it, an expensive system is meaningless.

I was lucky enough to listen to the new WAMM system for over a year. I even did the settings myself. The owner of the system asked me to re-set the sound because the amplifier had changed. So I did everything myself, including the speaker positions and module settings.

Since I had to do the settings without EQ, I went there often and set it up for several days.

The sound of a system made up of only the top 1-2 most expensive products from each brand is really on a different level. You have to hear it to express it.

Money isn't everything, but if you build a system with products that have both performance and brand value at a very high price, it will sound fantastic.

Anyway, my listening standards are the most important to me. This will remain the same in the future. If I don't have my own standards, I have to choose based on other people's standards, and if that's the case, I wouldn't have any reason to have this hobby.

No, your comparison method is full of variables and not reliable. Your hearing isn't a precision instrument....it depends on many variables, as simple as your mood. Sonic memory isn't particularly reliable either. If you want to convince yourself you're some sort of golden ear, that's your business but simply isn't very interesting let alone conclusive. I can definitely buy audio products without auditioning....where I live for quite a few of the last many years far easier for the product come to me rather than me to the product. Besides, in my own environment is better than various others.

I've listened to B&W and McIntosh but didn't want to buy them as a result.

Wilson Audio isn't particularly who I'd look to for best performance. Very expensive, sure, but money doesn't necessarily buy quality/performance. If you think you can tell difference because of an interconnect, you've either got a faulty/insufficient cable or an active imagination. Feelings? Emotions? They can definitely get in the way of good judgement. If you like more expensive products because they're more expensive, that's your thing, not mine. Too much high end bullshit out there, and seems you participate.

Good luck!

 

[Old_School_Brad]

When I tested the preamp, Boulder was the only one that could hear the sound of the DAC without any distortion or change from the entry products. The DAC was a Vivaldi set.

But when I connected the preamps of VTL, Audio Research, Meridian, Pathos, Chord, etc., the sound did not come out as it was even though I used the same cable to the same DAC. It sounded different from when I connected it directly to the DAC. It was worse. For sure. Even the power cable was the same.

No matter how much I could say that I felt different because of the placebo effect, there really is a difference.

If you're referring to a difference that only you can perceive, I believe you. But if you mean a difference that others can also hear, I don't.
Sighted listening tests produce biased results -when the price is known, people tend to prefer the more expensive component.

Why do ridiculously expensive products sell? People with a lot of money can't be stupid. Everyone has their own standards, and they live as long as they meet those standards.

People tend to believe that a higher price equates to better sound quality. However, this assumption is demonstrably false, as proven by measurements of various components conducted by independent testers -just like what we see here on ASR, and the myriad of blind tests that have been done.

 

[JSmith]

No one buys a product without listening to the sound or comparing it.

Oh yes they do, including myself... amps, DACs, streamers, there is no need when there an independent measurements available, like here at ASR. We don't listen to such devices, we listen to speakers.... those upstream devices are meant to be transparent to the source, minimal distortion and noise etc.

Speakers, that's a different matter... but I would use measurements to construct a shortlist, then go to audition from there. That said, auditioning can be problematic too... as it's not the room the speakers will be in (i.e. your own room). The best way to audition speakers is at home... but this is not always possible. This is where the predicted in room response (plus all other measurements) of a speaker can be beneficial in decision making.

Now, you say you want an amp... are you having issues navigating the review index? Members will be happy to recommend something too, if you give some more detail about your requirements... but I personally prefer to do my own research rather than relying on others.


JSmith

 

[Holmz]

To put things a little more bluntly:
First choose your speakers. They need to match your room. If you have a dedicated room, physical treatments can also be considered. Speakers include not only the main speakers (although you may only have a main pair) but subwoofers to improve the bass response in the room.

And ideally some HPF to send the higher notes upstairs and the lower notes towards a subwoofer.
Then that 300W requirement generally goes down towards 100W or maybe 150 or 200W

When you know what speakers you are going to use, only then should you think about the amplification. After that, really, comes the source and whatever device you may use for room correction/equalisation.

If you are not sure about speakers, you can ask (again) here. Include budget, room size, and what candidates you can actually buy. It's difficult for us when people are coy about their location and "Asia" is a big place. Judging by what your friends seem to have, I presume you are relatively well off and in a location where there is at least a market for higher priced items. Some posters who come here from different places appear to have little idea of what they can buy, prices or anything else.

You have the cart before the horse, as it were. I certainly would not want to be the person who got you to buy a $10000+, kilowatt per channel amp, when you then choose a speaker that runs happily on a tenth of that power or less. Do things the right way round and you will be happier, faster.

Agree the cart is ahead of the horse here.

 

[Phorize]

I think the problem is that whilst there are many superb options in your price range, if you want top notch engineering and a classic/luxury brand at those power ratings you need to double your budget. For example the accuphase p 7500 ticks those boxes for me, but I'd never spend that kind of money on an amplifier.

 

[JSmith]

boXem - Arthur 4216/E2

2 channels HiFi power amplifier, Purifi second gen. Eigentakt technology. Designed and proudly built in Luxembourg.

boxem-audio.eu

JSmith

 

[Mart68]

$

When I tested the preamp, Boulder was the only one that could hear the sound of the DAC without any distortion or change from the entry products. The DAC was a Vivaldi set.

But when I connected the preamps of VTL, Audio Research, Meridian, Pathos, Chord, etc., the sound did not come out as it was even though I used the same cable to the same DAC. It sounded different from when I connected it directly to the DAC. It was worse. For sure. Even the power cable was the same.

No matter how much I could say that I felt different because of the placebo effect, there really is a difference. It’s not for nothing that preamps worth hundreds of thousands of dollars are sold. People with a lot of money buy them because they think there is a difference. And in my experience, all brands of preamps that are over $20,000 heard the sound of the DAC as it was.

There's no need for a pre-amp to cost $20K unless it is made of gold and diamonds.

Any competent DAC or pre-amp will not have a 'sound' - they are not musical instruments.

Digital cables and power cables make no difference.

I suspect if you compared with controls you would quickly discover you could not reliably tell those devices apart.

Of course, you can find products that can hear good sound even from cheap preamps. But what I’m saying is that I compared preamps from expensive hi-fi brands.

I know that expensive doesn't necessarily mean it will give you the right sound.

The Sony I use would cost around £5K if sold today. Possibly more as made in Japan. That's more than sufficient cost for a pre-amp. Plus it incorporates an ADC, a DAC, PEQ and a compressor and expander.

They can be bought cheap on the secondary market because they are old and because Sony is not a brand that commands premium used prices since audiophiles regard it, in their ignorance, as 'mid-fi'. Their loss is my gain

I have auditioned many systems over the years where the cost was in the tens and hundreds of thousands. There is no value in spending that much if sound quality is the only consideration. At least for a 2 channel system. Maybe you could stretch to that for a state of the art multi-channel but only because you would be spending almost all of it on loudspeakers. You still wouldn't need expensive electronics.

Why do ridiculously expensive products sell? People with a lot of money can't be stupid. Everyone has their own standards, and they live as long as they meet those standards.

They are not stupid but they lack knowledge in the specific area which is why they get ripped off. Like my friend who has multiple degrees and higher degrees in science and mathematics but gets ripped off every time he buys a used car. He thinks he knows what he's doing when he buys a car, but in fact he doesn't.

 

[ZolaIII]

@Uranus I make large salune floorstanders equivalents out of bookshelf's and sub's. And I do it better. Price difference is order of magnitude. You don't want very high efficiency speakers, let's say above 90 dB as you will need very clean amplifier to run them on normal listening levels. Calibration is done to the 85/88 dB mono/stereo white noise to a listening spot as a top value they should play. More you bring up crossovers for the sub's they need less power and generally 100W (@8 Ohms) is enough that way. I can understand looks, feals, honor and pride but you still shouldn't exacarate. Many people hire have fetish for Yamaha A-S 1200 for the looks and VU meters, I settled down for A-S 700 for a bargaining price. Sure it would look better in silver than black and it's far from attractive as AS1200 but they perform the same. It will last me that I will doing the time want it stop working multiple times just to get something else (we all have this problem). I don't spend much time looking at it or any components for that mater. And that's fine. If you want quality, extended warranty and parts availability you have to pay for it and that's also fine as long as its for those reasons. Just avoid uber boutique over expensive stuff that doesn't do anything for you.

 

[goryu]

Thanks for your opinion. So I'm going to buy a Class D high-power amplifier and try it out. ...Since the circuit inside is all the same.

Um, not close to true.

 

[mr_bill]

@Uranus i like your comments and am excited to hear what you have to say, no matter what the mob says.

 

[Galliardist]

I was lucky enough to listen to the new WAMM system for over a year. I even did the settings myself. The owner of the system asked me to re-set the sound because the amplifier had changed. So I did everything myself, including the speaker positions and module settings.

Since I had to do the settings without EQ, I went there often and set it up for several days.

This sounds like pure nonsense in so many ways. Firstly, when someone buys a WAMM, the dealer sets it up in the room according to company precepts. Secondly, unless I completely misunderstand the concepts, the position and setup of the speakers would be room dependent, not amplifier dependent. A WAMM buyer would presumably be aware of that.

No way would any owner of these speakers get an amateur, which it appears from your posts that you are, to redo the setup of the speakers based on an amp change.

So please explain, are you actually a qualified Wilson dealer/employee or otherwise properly qualified to do that job? Or did you just wreck the setup of million dollar speakers?

 

[WisEd]

Pair of bridged Benchmark AHB2 amps. 380 watts into 8 ohms bridged. $7k per pair.

Benchmark AHB2 Power Amplifier

Benchmark's new AHB2 Power Amplifier - "The Quietest, Cleanest Audio Amplifier on the Planet"

benchmarkmedia.com

Tested here by Amir.

Review and Measurements of Benchmark AHB2 Amp

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Benchmark AHB2 Amplifier using THX technology to reduce distortion. I was going to request one for testing due to membership demand but to my pleasant surprise, the company volunteered to contact me and send not one, but two units! I requested...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Benchmark Media Systems AHB2 power amplifier

www.stereophile.com

Indeed a great measuring amp, yet a low power one at 100W. If you require, 3 or 4 times the grunt, as some speakers do, McIntosh can accommodate you for 10K. Other even more esoteric brands will, too, but for a much higher price. Amir hasn't tested a burly Mc, but their are plenty of other people around the world that have using the same criteria and proved that MCintosh ratings are "conservative".

 

[Harmonia]

Actually this can be solved. You don't realize you are making a claim the equivalent to saying you can flap your arms and fly like a bird. I don't need to meet in person to know that is a false claim.

Hi~ I'm back. I changed my nickname. It's not "Ass" anymore?

I respect your opinion. I know it could be a placebo effect or something. So I'm just going to make some system sounds and have fun. I saved a lot of money! Thanks guys.

I've listened to B&W and McIntosh but didn't want to buy them as a result.

Wilson Audio isn't particularly who I'd look to for best performance. Very expensive, sure, but money doesn't necessarily buy quality/performance. If you think you can tell difference because of an interconnect, you've either got a faulty/insufficient cable or an active imagination. Feelings? Emotions? They can definitely get in the way of good judgement. If you like more expensive products because they're more expensive, that's your thing, not mine. Too much high end bullshit out there, and seems you participate.

Yes. We should respect each other's tastes. I respect your opinion. Just find something that suits you, buy it, and enjoy it. Let's not think too hard about it.

 

[Harmonia]

If you're referring to a difference that only you can perceive, I believe you. But if you mean a difference that others can also hear, I don't.
Sighted listening tests produce biased results -when the price is known, people tend to prefer the more expensive component.


People tend to believe that a higher price equates to better sound quality. However, this assumption is demonstrably false, as proven by measurements of various components conducted by independent testers -just like what we see here on ASR, and the myriad of blind tests that have been done.

Thank you. For acknowledging it! After all, people value their own experiences, and their own misconceptions determine everything. That's what we call each person's individuality and taste.

I actively accepted your advice and configured the system. I'll listen to it later and write a review. It'll take time for the speakers to be made and uploaded.

Oh, it's not used. I bought it new. It's custom-made, so it's in production. There's a brand that has good performance for the price. So I'm waiting.

Speakers, that's a different matter... but I would use measurements to construct a shortlist, then go to audition from there. That said, auditioning can be problematic too... as it's not the room the speakers will be in (i.e. your own room). The best way to audition speakers is at home... but this is not always possible. This is where the predicted in room response (plus all other measurements) of a speaker can be beneficial in decision making.

JSmith

AMP will be purchased as an Auiophonics product. Yes. Speakers are important for space, and the sound changes completely depending on the setting, so you should just use it as a reference. That's why it's best to listen to them in a demo room or at a friend's house where you can trust them. You should listen to them with that in mind.

This time, the price of the speakers I chose was so much better than other brands that I ordered new ones. They're custom-made, so they're currently being produced. When they arrive, I'll set them up and write the results.

You guys have been emphasizing that expensive cables are meaningless, so I'm going to try using a ridiculous cable.

Instead of Hi-Fi speaker cables, I'm going to listen to them using Canare PA cables? Lol

I think the problem is that whilst there are many superb options in your price range, if you want top notch engineering and a classic/luxury brand at those power ratings you need to double your budget. For example the accuphase p 7500 ticks those boxes for me, but I'd never spend that kind of money on an amplifier.

You're right. It's not like we can get a good deal just by spending money anymore. Let's buy rationally. That's why all the brands are selling directly online and not creating agencies.

I'm buying those products too. I'm saving money.

boXem - Arthur 4216/E2

2 channels HiFi power amplifier, Purifi second gen. Eigentakt technology. Designed and proudly built in Luxembourg.

boxem-audio.eu

JSmith

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind!

Any competent DAC or pre-amp will not have a 'sound' - they are not musical instruments.
Digital cables and power cables make no difference.
I suspect if you compared with controls you would quickly discover you could not reliably tell those devices apart.

I have auditioned many systems over the years where the cost was in the tens and hundreds of thousands. There is no value in spending that much if sound quality is the only consideration. At least for a 2 channel system. Maybe you could stretch to that for a state of the art multi-channel but only because you would be spending almost all of it on loudspeakers. You still wouldn't need expensive electronics.

They are not stupid but they lack knowledge in the specific area which is why they get ripped off. Like my friend who has multiple degrees and higher degrees in science and mathematics but gets ripped off every time he buys a used car. He thinks he knows what he's doing when he buys a car, but in fact he doesn't.

Thanks for your advice. Right. Now I'm learning that expensive audio products don't always sound good. That's why I've focused my system configuration entirely on sound.

I've made a very interesting system. I chose good expensive speakers, and the rest is a reasonable system. Speakers + DL400 + Audiophonics Class D AMP + Canare Cable ETC! What about the source device? My smartphone connected with a Type C USB cable will be in charge!

I have a ROON account, but I'll listen to it like that for now, and later, because it's inconvenient, I'm thinking of buying a network player and listening to it with Roon. The sound difference probably won't be that big, but I'm investing extra money to listen comfortably.

I think it'll sound really great. I'm looking forward to it.

I'll make a system that perfectly matches your ideas! Thanks for your advice!

@Uranus I make large salune floorstanders equivalents out of bookshelf's and sub's. And I do it better. Price difference is order of magnitude. You don't want very high efficiency speakers, let's say above 90 dB as you will need very clean amplifier to run them on normal listening levels. Calibration is done to the 85/88 dB mono/stereo white noise to a listening spot as a top value they should play. More you bring up crossovers for the sub's they need less power and generally 100W (@8 Ohms) is enough that way. I can understand looks, feals, honor and pride but you still shouldn't exacarate. Many people hire have fetish for Yamaha A-S 1200 for the looks and VU meters, I settled down for A-S 700 for a bargaining price. Sure it would look better in silver than black and it's far from attractive as AS1200 but they perform the same. It will last me that I will doing the time want it stop working multiple times just to get something else (we all have this problem). I don't spend much time looking at it or any components for that mater. And that's fine. If you want quality, extended warranty and parts availability you have to pay for it and that's also fine as long as its for those reasons. Just avoid uber boutique over expensive stuff that doesn't do anything for you.

Wow! You've set up a very reasonable 2.1 system. That's right. If you use a woofer, there's no problem using bookshelf speakers. It's annoying that you have to set the crossover well so that the gap between the woofer and the speaker is not noticeable, but considering the efficiency, it's overwhelming.

Usually, I tell people who use electrostatic speakers to 'use a woofer!' because they feel that the bass is lacking. But the funny thing is, people in my area absolutely do not tolerate using a woofer. They always try to set up everything with a 2-channel stereo system.

I think the high-end industry intentionally created this stereotype. That's how they make a living.

Honestly, I can't give up showing people, so I look for expensive speakers. If you only consider performance and sound, I admit that a bookshelf and woofer combination is the most reasonable combination.

Since I talked about high-end, you initially thought that I always look for expensive products. But I'm a reasonable person, right? That's why I set up the system I mentioned above.

I like doing new things. I'm the kind of person who hates being tied down to boring relics of the past. So I'm going to take on a new challenge! Thanks for the advice!

i like your comments and am excited to hear what you have to say, no matter what the mob says.

Wow! It's a great help? Thank you. For cheering me on.

This kind of positive conversation is a must-have in our lives. If we don't do this, we will never be able to move forward. Can someone who thinks he or she is the best develop? It's much better to compare and exchange opinions.

Of course, geniuses like Einstein can create everything themselves, but I'm an ordinary person. I accept all of your opinions, organize them in my own way, and learn from them.

I respect all of your opinions. Thank you. For taking your time to give me your opinions.

This sounds like pure nonsense in so many ways. Firstly, when someone buys a WAMM, the dealer sets it up in the room according to company precepts. Secondly, unless I completely misunderstand the concepts, the position and setup of the speakers would be room dependent, not amplifier dependent. A WAMM buyer would presumably be aware of that.

No way would any owner of these speakers get an amateur, which it appears from your posts that you are, to redo the setup of the speakers based on an amp change.

So please explain, are you actually a qualified Wilson dealer/employee or otherwise properly qualified to do that job? Or did you just wreck the setup of million dollar speakers?

Yes. I went to Wilson Audio and received training in the US. I went there shortly after David Wilson passed away. I regret not being able to meet him in person. I went to David Wilson's house with Darel Wilson and listened to the installed WAMM. Do you think that's ridiculous? Don't think that everything you think is correct. I wrote a lot of articles on ASR, and one of them said that I was trained at Wilson Audio.

You're right. I wouldn't have entrusted the WAMM to amateurs. And the person who bought it is also a person who is very serious about listening to sound. Do you think that person was crazy and left the speaker setup to just anyone?

Of course, the speaker should be installed in the right location for the space so that it can be set to produce the best sound in one sweet spot. And the amplifier should be able to drive the speaker properly. You can't connect a 50W AMP to a WAMM. If you connect something like that, there will be no bass at all.

I've been educated and experienced everything you think. So don't think that's ridiculous and think about it with an open mind.

There are many people who lie online, but on the other hand, there are also many people who have a lot of experience. So first of all, don't just look at the other person badly, and think that the other person is right and respond accordingly?

And you said 'wreck speakers', But we can re-set the speaker settings. And do you think someone who doesn't know the difference that the sound is ruined would buy a WAMM? Wilson Audio is a product that rich people who like music and listen to sound buy.

It's not a speaker that you buy because it's pretty in terms of design.

 

[drewdawg999]

Hi Harmonia, nice name! I find this thread interesting since I come from the subjective world as well, and once dreamed of owning Wilson speakers to be driven by a VTL or Jadis tube amp. But I've changed over the years, mainly due to what I've learned at ASR. Many bad habits can be picked up from greedy dealers who are only interested in separating you from much money.

So I think you may think too highly of wealthy owners of expensive speakers. It's mainly status that is acquired and coveted by the wealthy, bragging rights over sound quality. They mostly listen with their eyes and their oversized bank accounts. The rich can be rooked just like anyone when faced with overly friendly world class salesman. Hubris can be exploited, and perceptions manipulated with jedi mind tricks. Be careful making friends with dealers, I believe it's a slippery slope.

Audiophonics is a fine choice for amp. A Hypex or Purifi unit would offer the highest fidelity with total transparency. Personally I have a March Audio P502, which is based on the NC502MP module which is 350w into 8 ohms, perfect for your use case. The amp is perfect for my inefficient speakers, 500w into 4 ohms. Best my system has ever sounded. If it ever breaks down, I'd replace it with an Audiophonics, which look nice and have fine build quality. I also have SMSL DACs and believe they perform exceptionally. Except I plug it into a Topping Pre90, an outstanding piece (that got a glowing review here). But looks like you're on your way to audio Nirvana, which is nice to see. Nirvana can be achieved without breaking the bank, with high value products for which measurements exist. Wouldn't wanna do it any other way now.

 

[Chrispy]

Hi~ I'm back. I changed my nickname. It's not "Ass" anymore?

I respect your opinion. I know it could be a placebo effect or something. So I'm just going to make some system sounds and have fun. I saved a lot of money! Thanks guys.



Yes. We should respect each other's tastes. I respect your opinion. Just find something that suits you, buy it, and enjoy it. Let's not think too hard about it.

It's not particularly about taste though. Overpaying can be construed as taste I suppose, but strange without context. I find plenty of gear quite adequate, but I do think hard about my choices rather than just looking at a price and some vague expectations from "reviewers".

 

[ZolaIII]

Me well being me got a upgrade bug this day's and as I don't have much money I gave up. Best I could find is Revels F36 on clearance sale but they don't play nice with ceiling refractions and I don't have high one. Then I run onto very good PA in the middle open buffle design made to keep the function and FR how ever you trow them. Designed purposely to do so and achieve peak 130 dB stereo at 1 m. As their efficiency is 100 dB @ 1 W 8 Ohms and they are proper 8 Ohms the B200 Topping monoblocks would be a choice to drive them and all together would cost about 2K. They aren't lookers but nothing in HiFi will come close to their performance at such high SPL or being so easy to use. Telling you the story because we usually aren't so free minded to look it from that perspective. And it shows what's achievable with modest amount of power while pushing +9 dB (8x less power needed) more to very efficient home speakers (still not compromising either on quality or longevity) and made to work in pretty much any space. PA speakers I am talking about are Montarbo W440P.