Are the Hifiman Sundara an 'upgrade' from DT990 600OHM?

[wrigglycheese]

Pretty much the title.

Cheers.

 

[Χ Ξ Σ]

Very likely. The Sundara don't have the V-shaped frequency response or the infamous "Beyer peak" that the DT990 have.

 

[wrigglycheese]

Thank you, I appreciate that

 

[3125b]

They are different of course, I would see them as superior.
The Beyer are likely more durable though.

 

[wrigglycheese]

They are different of course, I would see them as superior.
The Beyer are likely more durable though.

Would you recommend something different in that price range?

I am from the UK and the Sundara are £300

The DT990 600OHM are £140

The Sundara are literally over double the price of the DT990 600ohm.

Any thoughts appreciated.

The headphones will be paired with the DacMagic 100 and SMSL SP200

I currently have the DT990 600OHM and the treble is just way OTT and lack of mid range is horrible. I use Eq APO with Peace GUI to hammer that treble way down, but obverall I just want a better quality headphone for all around use.

 

[solderdude]

HD560S, HD650, DT880 (250 or 600), HD660S, Deva wired, Sundara (new pads), Fidelio X2HR, HE400i (2020) with Focus pads.

Each of them have their own 'sound', strengths and weaknesses and I would consider them side-grades with a different tonal balance.

 

[Cahudson42]

Since you have EQ APO, you might consider the HFM HE400i if decently priced in UK. Here in US about $170. Using EQ APO, boost the bass a bit, shave off the 7k peak..

DROP has just come out with the HFM $220 HE5XX. Perhaps you have followed the controversy that it may (or may not) be the wired DEVA at the same $220. (If HE5xx not available in UK).

 

[wrigglycheese]

HD560S, HD650, DT880 (250 or 600), HD660S, Deva wired, Sundara (new pads), Fidelio X2HR, HE400i (2020) with Focus pads.

Each of them have their own 'sound', strengths and weaknesses and I would consider them side-grades with a different tonal balance.

Thanks so much you're a gentleman giving me so much help and advice, again. Might I ask you Sir, would I be right to feel a little bit frustrated that I have the DT990 which are a £140 HP and the Sundara at over double the price, £300, you are saying are considred a 'side grade' ?

I currently also have the HD560s as well as the T50rp, just for information purposes.

Still playing around mostly with the DT990 600OHM, Fostex and EQ APO, more than the 560s. I'll be sneding the 560s back as I just don;t feel they are worth £170, if I am gonna spend, I want a bigger 'jump' in quality.

Hope this makes sense.

Potential key note, pun intended, I am VERY sensitive to treble and sibilance, I almost always roll off the top end, I used to do the same even with a high end home theatre system prefering a smooth, warm sound with defined low end (hence, the Paradigm Siganture Sub 1 with room correction - long time a go)

 

[wrigglycheese]

Since you have EQ APO, you might consider the HFM HE400i if decently priced in UK. Here in US about $170. Using EQ APO, boost the bass a bit, shave off the 7k peak..

DROP has just come out with the HFM $220 HE5XX. Perhaps you have followed the controversy that it may (or may not) be the wired DEVA at the same $220. (If HE5xx not available in UK).

Thank you very much I will look into this.

 

[vagii]

Audio Technica ATH-R70X, neutral tuning. An amp is needed though.

 

[solderdude]

Thanks so much you're a gentleman giving me so much help and advice, again. Might I ask you Sir, would I be right to feel a little bit frustrated that I have the DT990 which are a £140 HP and the Sundara at over double the price, £300, you are saying are considred a 'side grade' ?

I currently also have the HD560s as well as the T50rp, just for information purposes.

Still playing around mostly with the DT990 600OHM, Fostex and EQ APO, more than the 560s. I'll be sneding the 560s back as I just don;t feel they are worth £170, if I am gonna spend, I want a bigger 'jump' in quality.

Hope this makes sense.

Potential key note, pun intended, I am VERY sensitive to treble and sibilance, I almost always roll off the top end, I used to do the same even with a high end home theatre system prefering a smooth, warm sound with defined low end (hence, the Paradigm Siganture Sub 1 with room correction - long time a go)

I am saying I consider them a side grade.
When you are treble sensitive you can dismiss all Beyers and even X2HR ... perhaps even the HE400i and in a lesser degree the Sundara has this.
Most people are not bothered by it and may even like it.
There are passive ways to remove the sharp treble and also in digital domain.

When you are using EQ and still don't like the DT990 then you are not using the right EQ.
The HD560S also needs some EQ but not in the treble area.

Consider the Meze 99, warm, smooth somewhat subdued but present highs. Sidegrade as well.
Also look into the AudioQuest ones. Very warm/bassy (some say bloated) lows and subdued highs. Think DT990 with all treble removed.
It takes getting used to and not switching between headphones but it can grow on you.
To really make an upgrade you will have to draw the wallet and even then the differences can be small.

 

[Astrozombie]

Denon 5*** or 7**** series probably.

 

[wrigglycheese]

I am saying I consider them a side grade.
When you are treble sensitive you can dismiss all Beyers and even X2HR ... perhaps even the HE400i and in a lesser degree the Sundara has this.
Most people are not bothered by it and may even like it.
There are passive ways to remove the sharp treble and also in digital domain.

When you are using EQ and still don't like the DT990 then you are not using the right EQ.
The HD560S also needs some EQ but not in the treble area.

Consider the Meze 99, warm, smooth somewhat subdued but present highs. Sidegrade as well.
Also look into the AudioQuest ones. Very warm/bassy (some say bloated) lows and subdued highs. Think DT990 with all treble removed.
It takes getting used to and not switching between headphones but it can grow on you.
To really make an upgrade you will have to draw the wallet and even then the differences can be small.

Apologies for not being clear with EQ APO DT990 and T50rp are pretty damn sweet, I was kinda meaning just as they are normally they are WAY too harsh for my ears.

EQ APO with peace GUI, something I only discovered about 4 days ago has been an absolute GAME CHANGER to how much I can enjoy both the DT990 and T50rp.

I heard such good things about the Sundara, I thought I'd give them a shot, I don't expect to find a headphone which is perfect as every ear is different, but the better the starting point the less tweaking with EQ APO required and I suppose it was just a bit disappointing to spend double the price for a side grade....

Hope I make sense and many thanks again - I will try the Sundara as the order is already placed and can always send back.

 

[wrigglycheese]

Audio Technica ATH-R70X, neutral tuning. An amp is needed though.

Thank you, I do have an AMP, the SMSL SP200

 

[wrigglycheese]

Denon 5*** or 7**** series probably.

Thank you will loook into it.

 

[Rayman30]

I have heard both, currently own the Sundara, I am sensitive to treble and it took me a bit to get used to these, where I could never get use to Beyers.

Sundara has less treble peaks but still sparkly.
Sundara has more present mids
Sundara has faster and punchier bass, not as boomy, but not as much of it.
Sundara has less soundstage.

Overall, its going to depend on the music you listen to. Imo, the Sundrara is more balanced and less V shaped like Solderdude mentioned. Let us know when you get them, I am curious to see if you agree.

 

[wrigglycheese]

I have heard both, currently own the Sundara, I am sensitive to treble and it took me a bit to get used to these, where I could never get use to Beyers.

Sundara has less treble peaks but still sparkly.
Sundara has more present mids
Sundara has faster and punchier bass, not as boomy, but not as much of it.
Sundara has less soundstage.

Overall, its going to depend on the music you listen to. Imo, the Sundrara is more balanced and less V shaped like Solderdude mentioned. Let us know when you get them, I am curious to see if you agree.

Had them since yesterday and I basically agree totally with what you have said. I use EQ APO but oddly, I have mostly used them plugged straight into my Xbox Series X controller, using Dolby Atmos for headphone for an EQ - I tweaked the nasty treble and ave a slight bump to the lower punch and I think they sound fantastic.

I have a question for you and solderdude tough... I shall quote him in my next post.

 

[wrigglycheese]

I would consider them side-grades with a different tonal balance.

I have been thinking about this since you said it and since I got my Sundara two days ago.

When you say side grade, but just with different tonal balance, are you saying that technically the driver/specs etc are just the same as the DT990, and they're somehow double the price because they're TUNED differently ?? (they are actually, TRIPLE the price, you can grab the DT990 for just over £100 on Amazon UK.... Once again, we are talking near TRIPLE the price, I am trying to swallow this hard pill that someone with your experience says they are a SIDE GRADE to the DT990)

I ask because, to me, there's something that sounds SUPERIOR about what they produce - but we also ALL know, placebo when it comes to audio is live, real, huge and well.

Please give your thoughts as I respect your opinion.

ANYBODY please chime in here....

And YES I really do have them plugged straight into my Xbox Series X controller and thanks to Dolby Atmos for Headphones, have a BASIC EQ which is ENOUGH to give a tweak in the right direction.... (also just to mention I do have to turn ingame sound down or I'd BE DEAF AF - I DO NOT know how audio works i nthe Series X with a wireless controller - probably much worse then with a PC to DacMagic 100 to SMSL SP200? LOL ))

It's not EQ APO with Peace GUI - like I said, it's enough for a tweak - WHICH IS ENOUGH! (Otherwise I would have the wrong HP)

EDIT: OFC I am also willing to send these back and try something different - I did look at the Audio-Technica ATH-R70X and Audio-Technica ATH-AD900X BOTH of which are near the same price.

Unfortunately buying online is complex when it comes to something like AUDIO.

 

[solderdude]

To one person the Sundara is the best headphone there is. To others it may be just another headphone.

My personal notes.. these are short impressions and at the same day also heard several T.O.T.L. headphones as well.
That makes me more critical than owners who have gotten time to get used to the sound.

The Sundara sounds slightly ‘lean’ in the bass area. The bass does sound good, well extended and ‘tight’.
The upper mids have a slight coarseness to it. There is a somewhat ‘artificial’ emphasis/sibilance heard with some recordings. Some ‘sharpish edge’ on on voices and instruments.
Dynamics sound a tad ‘compressed’ as in not ‘super dynamic’ as some other headphones manage.

It replaces the HE560 but at a much lower price. So it filled the gap between the HE400i and HE560.

To me the more expensive hifimans have a better sound quality and is what I think is more of an upgrade. The Ananda and Arya fall in that category.
The Sundara is a good headphone but so is the DT990. Yes they sound different and the treble peak is different from that of the Sundara.
When both are EQ'ed they still show some differences but the Sundara is not much better than the DT990 in some aspects. Bass is certainly better on the Sundara though.

So for me these headphones are side grades as they are good at specific things and while improving with EQ they still don't sound like T.O.T.L.

Never let that stop you. Budget is a thing for most folks. So is comfort. When you really like how it sounds you should just go with it.
Not everyone is willing to fork out substantially more to get 'improvements' in specific areas they care for.

 

[Cahudson42]

@solderdude I may have missed them, but can you add your impressions of the (wired) Deva and HE5XX?