You're supposed to take it as an in-room possibility?
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Are SVS subs over-rated?
- Thread starter NewbieAudiophileExpert
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Sure?
Like hotboxing a studio apartment bathroom in college to try to get the most outa that nickle bag of midwestern ditch weed you used your credit card to get a cash advance to buy.
Ya, I went there.
OP
NewbieAudiophileExpert
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Wow - did you smoke it out of a 'water pipe' made from an aluminium coke can? Perhaps an apple?Sure?
Like hotboxing a studio apartment bathroom in college to try to get the most outa that nickle bag of midwestern ditch weed you used your credit card to get a cash advance to buy.
Ya, I went there.
I don't know about that man - I'd think that two active 8 inch subs should have the surface area to hit pretty low - although you have to wonder what two 12 inch subs in parallel would do for bass?
You don't think so well. Surface area isn't everything. Two of the same driver won't particularly enable lower extension vs their inherent limitations. A dual opposed 8 with sufficient amp might be interesting....if you really need a small form factor and don't really care about higher performance.....personally that sort of sub isn't even on my radar. YMMV.
2L Coke bottle gravity bong.
And no... I never did that. Sure I got high. Even made my own Honey Bear Bong at one point.
But that doesn't really make a difference about how one can expect 8" Subwoofers to perform and in what circumstances.
You should learn about Speaker Design. Even the most basic read through, you will learn that no matter how many driver's you stack up, you will never lower their possible extension.
All of this is a balancing act. 8" Drivers are rarely effective as what I would consider a true Subwoofer. My mains, using 8" Revelator Woofers perform down to 25Hz. They aren't Subs. Just a well designed Woofer.
Even Salon 2s with their 3 8" Drivers per cabinet and F3 of 23Hz cannot hit as hard at 20Hz as a good Subwoofer could.
Wiring 2 12" drivers in parallel means nothing if they are low sensitivity Drivers, for example. Sure you will get a boost to SPL, regardless of the Driver Sensitivity...
But so much more comes into play.
This is the thing about all the different gear on the market. Every Speaker is a (hopefully) carefully crafted balance of compromises. Some get it right, Others don't. One can deliver high output with a small size... another may be big and dig low, but not play as loud. *shrugs Which is right? Both.
A Lifestyle Subwoofer like the 3000 Micro and the little KEF are probably great for a small apartment or little listening room where deep bass isn't the goal. Compare that performance to the SB 3000 for just $200 more. With the 13" Driver, you get an F3 of 18Hz and I would expect... greater output and more headroom.
All of this is rudimentary and comes back to the most basic thing: What is the User's intention? If you are looking to fill in below some small monitors and not disturb your neighbors, you may well want the Micro. If you want to watch a movie at reference level... that Micro will leave you wanting.
Ultimately, the only right answer is User dependent.
I've been very careful to not say this thing is cr@p. I may not personally take it seriously, but there are people that this will make happy for various reasons. I would likely never recommend it, but for the people that it will work for... it may well satisfy.Yet for every person that a Micro may satisfy, it is almost as possible to point to a person buying multiple NSW6021s for a Dev or Marty Build and expecting every inch of pant-leg flapping they will get from that investment.
YMMV, of course.
That's what the micro is , 8 inch dual opposing drivers and lots of watts...it's still a mid bass box for mostly music( from what i can tell)..but in a small room with something like what i have for speakers it might be pretty ok..i just wouldn't want to count on much in HT...
You had me at " coke bottle gravity bong" ....my favorite was the plastic aunt jemima bottle bong with the metal stem shoo goo'd to the bottle...... Fun times..2L Coke bottle gravity bong.
And no... I never did that. Sure I got high. Even made my own Honey Bear Bong at one point.
But that doesn't really make a difference about how one can expect 8" Subwoofers to perform and in what circumstances.
You should learn about Speaker Design. Even the most basic read through, you will learn that no matter how many driver's you stack up, you will never lower their possible extension.
All of this is a balancing act. 8" Drivers are rarely effective as what I would consider a true Subwoofer. My mains, using 8" Revelator Woofers perform down to 25Hz. They aren't Subs. Just a well designed Woofer.
Even Salon 2s with their 3 8" Drivers per cabinet and F3 of 23Hz cannot hit as hard at 20Hz as a good Subwoofer could.
Wiring 2 12" drivers in parallel means nothing if they are low sensitivity Drivers, for example. Sure you will get a boost to SPL, regardless of the Driver Sensitivity...
But so much more comes into play.
This is the thing about all the different gear on the market. Every Speaker is a (hopefully) carefully crafted balance of compromises. Some get it right, Others don't. One can deliver high output with a small size... another may be big and dig low, but not play as loud. *shrugs Which is right? Both.
A Lifestyle Subwoofer like the 3000 Micro and the little KEF are probably great for a small apartment or little listening room where deep bass isn't the goal. Compare that performance to the SB 3000 for just $200 more. With the 13" Driver, you get an F3 of 18Hz and I would expect... greater output and more headroom.
All of this is rudimentary and comes back to the most basic thing: What is the User's intention? If you are looking to fill in below some small monitors and not disturb your neighbors, you may well want the Micro. If you want to watch a movie at reference level... that Micro will leave you wanting.
Ultimately, the only right answer is User dependent.
Yet for every person that a Micro may satisfy, it is almost as possible to point to a person buying multiple NSW6021s for a Dev or Marty Build and expecting every inch of pant-leg flapping they will get from that investment.
YMMV, of course.
You nailed it. These are a solution for mid bass presence (not punch) and filling in for Speakers that roll off too high.
You mentioned BMRs earlier. They are -3dB at about 34Hz. Great Speakers. They cover almost all of the musical range an audiophile may want to cover. (A little shy on the bottom end of the Piano.) They still benefit from something to add a little more weight down low. For music only, in a small room, these Micros may be the ticket.
My speakers are kinda like the amt version of the mini phils from what i can tell.. I bet you can guess what they are...You nailed it. These are a solution for mid bass presence (not punch) and filling in for Speakers that roll off too high.
You mentioned BMRs earlier. They are -3dB at about 34Hz. Great Speakers. They cover almost all of the musical range an audiophile may want to cover. (A little shy on the bottom end of the Piano.) They still benefit from something to add a little more weight down low. For music only, in a small room, these Micros may be the ticket.
I looked really hard at those when he had them available, and then he did the "Ceramic Duo." Both very similar to the Mini Phils I have. (Those little 5" Zaphs are pretty good Drivers! In a small Sealed Sealed Cab, they are done at 55Hz, though.)
(All of that is to say, yet again, that everybody has different needs, and the solution for me is not necessarily the solution for you.)
I've been hoping he'd do another mini , but i'm not holding my breath..i was so tempted on the ceramics .. What a great price he had going...I'm still hoping i win the lottery so i can get some bmr's...I looked really hard at those when he had them available, and then he did the "Ceramic Duo." Both very similar to the Mini Phils I have. (Those little 5" Zaphs are pretty good Drivers! In a small Sealed Sealed Cab, they are done at 55Hz, though.)
(All of that is to say, yet again, that everybody has different needs, and the solution for me is not necessarily the solution for you.)
Word is he's hoping to have something available soon in that regard. Also, the AA Monitor will be coming back in a manner: you can order the parts from PE, and the XO from him. He says his newest XO put the Dayton Kit almost equal to the old Morel AA+ version!
Yeah , I've talked to him about the aa's , maybe, but i think the mini will be more my thing considering i have a decent sub...i won't wait this time around...
REK2575
Active Member
I think this is pretty spot on. It's how I'm using the 3000 Micro: entirely for music in a 2.1 configuration, though I'd quibble that it need not be limited to use in a small room. I'm using it in my living room which is ~30'x18' and it's got more than enough juice to fill this space. What I primarily listen to is also relevant -- classical and jazz -- so I wanted a small, 'musical' sub, not something overpowering. Anyway, the 3000 Micro is giving me what I wanted: solid bass extension for my Revel M106s, which roll off starting at 59Hz. I keep fiddling with the low pass on the SVS app, but mostly have been sticking with 64Hz, 12dB slope. I can easily get floor reverberating, window rattling bass with this combo.
Anyway, yes, not a sub for bassheads, and maybe not even a subwoofer proper, but, like @ryansaur aptly says, a speaker for 'bass presence (not punch)'' for someone with smallish/bookshelf mains with only modest bass extension.
yes , i could see them being fine in medium sized rooms as well (depending on some other factors), especially in 2.1 music rigs...they certainly wouldn't be my go to in HT for any size room...i think your set up is the model on how they can be used properly...
Andysu
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SVS may as well be SVDS sounds very disorted sound . . in this "youtube smart phone video" . i don't buy movies anymore than has hans zimmer with poorly mixed LCRS that has no equal balance . if sub bass is too loud it would sound distorted on our ears . a smart phone again rubbish no way to adjust or eq the input levels . use outboard recording connected to smart phone or video camera and capture a better recording that doesn't have wads of distortion .
i can't stand music concerts like this with camera moving around and whole performers microphone up and sent back to recording mixer room . yet the camera should hear the sound louder different when near a performer .
i can't stand music concerts like this with camera moving around and whole performers microphone up and sent back to recording mixer room . yet the camera should hear the sound louder different when near a performer .
Mike-48
Active Member
Citation to published data showing this, please?
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The distortion and group delay issues with sealed SVS subs are really only an issue below 30hz, where they start to loose output significantly anyway. Both are probably inaudible with most music. If you want clean output down to 20hz or lower then a ported SVS sub is a better choice. Audioholics has published extensive measurements in their reviews of SVS subs. Distortion in low bass frequencies is one of the reasons why I purchased a PC-2000 instead of a SB-2000 as it's often used for movies and games in addition to music.
the idea that low end distortion is automatically a "bad" thing is sure debatable ..and for music with subs like svs that have lower port tuning , pretty much a non factor.. even in the entry level subs...
I will not say SVS is bad, as my first real sub was their 20-39 cylinder and I loved it, but that was back before they were bought and Tom left. Like any growing company they went more mainstream from the niche roots. Nothing wrong with that, but as the company grows you need to feed the beast (bottom line). I think they make really good products, but their pricing has gotten a bit extreme. I will give them credit, they made a name for themselves early on and built a solid reputation when I upgraded 7 years ago I went with Rom’a new company, Power Sound Audik wheich really gives you that early SVS experience , well built and engineered subs with amazing performance. I have dual V1800s and they are tight and clean.
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