Are studio monitors a better buy than passive hifi speakers?

[mjgraves]

I suspect that an active crossover offers considerable opportunity for optimisation. Whereas passive crossovers are inherently lossy and limiting, especially as complexity increases. Further, the question of a speaker being a difficult load for an amplifier is removed when the manufacturer can match the amplifier to the driver.

The original question is about "a better buy." I would say that a well-designed active monitor may well offer better value-for-the-money. But a lot of it is in the ear/wallet of the beholder.

 

[Heinrich]

Whereas passive crossovers are inherently lossy ...

Not that much, see 'hiss' as a problem evolving from optimizing the output versus cost.

... and limiting, especially as complexity increases.

Complexity isn't well defined. A two way is pretty easy to do as long as an outside correction for the last dB or so is available. The reviews even on this side often mention the possibility to e/q a not that optimal frequency response to a close to perfect result, objectively and subjectively. Some specimen then might be worth to be considered 'monitors'

Tedious and/or costly are larger horn mid/treble sections and three ways with lower (worthwhile) crossover frequencies. I wonder why the industry, Neuman namely, doesn't take full advantage of the new possibilities.

I personally decided to buy KEF R3 (non meta) for cheap and equalise that little hump around 6kHz (1dB) outside in the signal chain to taste. Because it was a small-ish three way with all the benefits of that, plus coax as the icing on the cake.

 

[mjgraves]

Not that much, see 'hiss' as a problem evolving from optimizing the output versus cost.

See my prior reference to "well-designed." There's an aweful lot of shoddy product in the "small powered monitors" category.

Some are nothing more than we once considered cheap computer speakers.

PS - anything smaller than 5 inches has no business calling itself a "woofer." ;-)

 

[jhaider]

This feels like a misdirection / excuse to me. If you don't want active speakers, that perfectly fair.

I’m curious where that interpretation comes from, because it cannot come from the text I wrote. In the very post you quoted, I wrote, "Centralized amplification just makes so much more sense for sophisticated systems. And that can be done with active or passive crossover speakers." (emph. added)

So the issue I raise has nothing to with passive vs. active, but rather appropriate physical location of processing and amplification (however many channels per loudspeaker that may be). In a basic (i.e. 2-channel) system maybe it does not matter much, or depending on setup speakers with plate amps (especially if they also incorporate streaming) may be better. In a more modern system (i.e. immersive) the balance clearly swings to centralization of amps/processing IMO. True. your approach of a feature between the front wall and the speakers is one elegant way to address the problem, though that only works at best for 5 of the loudspeakers in a system (LCR, front LR height) along with any subs on the front wall.

The best option for the user is clearly what, e.g., Neumann does with KH 420: the amp can be mounted to the speaker or taken off and used remotely. That is, to be fair, also the most expensive solution for the manufacturer, because both a (presumably) metal amp cabinet as well as a speaker cabinet need to be provided and finished, and then extra Speakon or Phoenix connectors, etc., need to be procured and installed. There's also a potential support hassle of mis-wired cabling.

But the fact that you need power doesn't seem like a valid reason to not doi t. There are many ways to hide and/or install cables.

The fact of the matter is low voltage wiring is cheaper to install and poses less potential safety risks than electrical.

But again, if you feel that it's not worth the effort / you're not interested, that's perfectly fine.

This isn’t or shouldn’t be about me, but about the general case, which is that centralized amplification is the superior choice for a sophisticated audio system. But for the record, in the current home I specified speaker cabling sufficient to run 4 way active speakers per front channel, and 2-way active speakers for side/rear/height. All of the amplifiers would be in the same rack, of course. (Full disclosure; also ran STP cat6 to each speaker from the amp rack, which could be used for Dante or analog line level.) The marginal cost of running not-yet-or-perhaps-ever needed low-voltage cable was minimal. The real expenses are the initial routing, and patching/repainting. And that’s the same whether it’s 1 run of 14/4 or 2 runs of 14/4 + cat.

 

[sigbergaudio]

@jhaider I can understand and appreciate your view, but from a commercial standpoint I'm unsure if we will find that the majority agrees. While the extra outlet is a valid point, I suspect many who choose active speakers want less boxes, so not really interested in external amplification.

You will also have more complicated wiring to the speakers (since each driver needs individual wiring), so you're either back to many wires, or a custom (and thicker than usual) cable.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

I am one of those people who want fewer boxes.

My current primary hifi setup consists of:

• 2 active monitors on stands
• 2 power cables
• 2 AES3 cables

And that's it. No other boxes. Roon Core lives on a Macbook in another room, no muss no fuss.

 

[Ktacos]

Which Neumann and Genelec models are you referring to?
I've never heard that before.

KH80 and 8030c, kh80 were quieter. Problem is I live in the middle of no where and my hearing is really good, so in nearfield I could hear the hiss, sometimes it's not something I could really point to, but my brain knew something was generating noise in the space.

 

[AnalogSteph]

so in nearfield I could hear the hiss, sometimes it's not something I could really point to, but my brain knew something was generating noise in the space.

That's about what I'm getting out of my trusty K+H O110s as well. I consider it low enough to be of no practical concern though, particularly since listening distance increased to about 40 cm. There is basically no noise at all out of my EVE SC203s in the office.

The somewhat so-so hiss level on the 8030Cs is well-documented. It's the smallest model to be generally considered tolerable, it becomes more and more of an issue as you go further down in size in this series.

 

[Bleib]

None of the models you two mention are cheap. Meh.
I don't know if my Audioengine 5 normally have hiss, luckily I bought it with the amp broken so I rebuilt the active one into a passive one as well. Dead silent with Topping MX3s

 

[Deleted member 89782]

I am one of those people who want fewer boxes.

My current primary hifi setup consists of:

• 2 active monitors on stands
• 2 power cables
• 2 AES3 cables

And that's it. No other boxes. Roon Core lives on a Macbook in another room, no muss no fuss.

I prefer an amp and easy to lay 2.5 mm2 speaker cables to two power cables, especially if there‘s no wall socket anywhere near. Plus, the AES3 or other cable necesarry between the two speakers you need to lay anyway, unless you go wireless of course.

 

[AnalogSteph]

None of the models you two mention are cheap. Meh.

But they're good.

Among budget models, KRK RP5 G4 and Mackie MR524 have a good reputation in the hiss department, the latter arguably being more limited by transformer hum (which in most constructions is readily transferred to the enclosure; the adoption of SMPS' tends to largely eliminate this issue).

I don't know if my Audioengine 5 normally have hiss, luckily I bought it with the amp broken so I rebuilt the active one into a passive one as well. Dead silent with Topping MX3s

That's relatively easy as those are mere powered speakers with passive crossovers, not true active ones. By the time a 1" dome finds itself in a decent-sized waveguide, its sensitivity may be climbing to 100-105 dB SPL / 2.83 V / m in the mid-treble, making it correspondingly more critical compared to something brought down to 85-87 dB by a passive crossover.

Specified MX3s output noise amounts to -93.4 dB(A) ref. 2.83 V (low gain) / -89.0 dB(A) ref. 2.83 V (high gain), so you're well in the clear for a smallish passive speaker, especially at low gain. And yes, even high gain should still exhibit a bit less noise than the KH80s, which are at a very good level for an active speaker. Nothing at all should be audible beyond 40-50 cm, or 25-30 cm at low gain.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

I prefer an amp and easy to lay 2.5 mm2 speaker cables to two power cables, especially if there‘s no wall socket anywhere near.

A battery powered amp?

 

[olds1959special]

The ELAC DBR62 goes up to 35kHz and has very nice extended sounding treble. My Dynaudio BM5A Mk2 (goes up to 21kHz), while sounding better overall than my previous setup with the ELACs, has a little something lacking in the high treble region. I can't help but think this is by design, since when mixing at loud levels for long periods of time, the high treble is going to fatigue the sound engineers ears. But having extended treble is great for enjoying music.

 

[sigbergaudio]

The ELAC DBR62 goes up to 35kHz and has very nice extended sounding treble. My Dynaudio BM5A Mk2 (goes up to 21kHz), while sounding better overall than my previous setup with the ELACs, has a little something lacking in the high treble region. I can't help but think this is by design, since when mixing at loud levels for long periods of time, the high treble is going to fatigue the sound engineers ears. But having extended treble is great for enjoying music.

You cannot hear above 21khz, so the difference you are hearing is not the difference in treble extension.

 

[olds1959special]

You cannot hear above 21khz, so the difference you are hearing is not the difference in treble extension.

Probably true and I can’t hear above 21kHz (actually more like 15k) but I wouldn’t be surprised if there are effects on the body/mind from ultra high frequencies!

 

[sigbergaudio]

Probably true and I can’t hear above 21kHz (actually more like 15k) but I wouldn’t be surprised if there are effects on the body/mind from ultra high frequencies!

You should be surprised by that, because everything we know so far implies that this is not the case.

 

[olds1959special]

You should be surprised by that, because everything we know so far implies that this is not the case.

AI Overview


Yes, ultra-high frequencies like 25 kHz can be used as a weapon, though they are inaudible to most adults
. When projected at high intensity, 25 kHz is a type of ultrasonic weapon that can cause pain, disorientation, and other physical effects.

 

[Esprit]

Wrong ITALY play poor and don't take into account the many power outlets and their genuine benefits in different rooms when it comes to building technology

I am Italian and I have power outlets everywhere in addition to the fact that they have always existed and exist signal cables in tabdem with power cables.

 

[Esprit]

On top of that, Genelec is offering 5 year warranty. So since "the plate amplifiers are not reliable" they may go out of business soon....

My Adam speakers are over 10 years old and run no less than 8 hours every day.

 

[sigbergaudio]

AI Overview


Yes, ultra-high frequencies like 25 kHz can be used as a weapon, though they are inaudible to most adults
. When projected at high intensity, 25 kHz is a type of ultrasonic weapon that can cause pain, disorientation, and other physical effects.

Right, but this is irrelevant in the context of music playback.