Are studio monitors a better buy than passive hifi speakers?

[kyuu]

Often here on ASR, less-than-perfect instruments (for example, DACs with SNR below 110) are dismissed as junk, not worth buying.
Then the same people often make a point like this:
"Who cares if that monitor has the SNR of the worst '90s all-in-one system from the supermarket, just don't turn the volume up too high without music..."

Please provide a specific example of a person who has claimed a DAC with SINAD less than 110dB is junk while also saying the thing about active monitors that I assume is referring to hiss.

Otherwise I'm going to have to assume you're building strawmen.

 

[Talisman]

Please provide a specific example of a person who has claimed a DAC with SINAD less than 110dB is junk while also saying the thing about active monitors that I assume is referring to hiss.

Otherwise I'm going to have to assume you're building strawmen.

You can assume what you want.
The forum is full of discussions like this; search any review of less-than-stellar DACs and you'll find tons of comments like this.
Then go to one of the threads about active vs. passive monitors and you'll find countless other users ready to defend the indefensible regarding monitor background noise.
Anyone who even minimally frequents the forum and has any intellectual honesty knows exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Still to do right requires an outlet near the front speakers, which in most cases means custom work that must meet relevant electrical codes. And then running signal cables as well as likely network.

You don't have outlets near the front speakers? Doesn't the rest of your system require power? Or are your amps and sources in another room? As someone else mentioned, perhaps we're unusually blessed here in Scandinavia, but normally there's at least one power outlet on any wall, often more if the wall is long.

 

[Hear Here]

If you don't know what you are talking about, perhaps you should educate yourself? By 2016 Genelec had made 1 million monitors.

Not a brand I have ever seen in any hi-fi showroom or heard at any audio show.

Why should that be if they have sold a million of them? They are aimed at a different market, probably those wanting better sound from the PCs, etc rather than for use in genuine hi-hi systems. It is easy to sell cheap stuff that sounds OK and many such products also sell well, but it's not the sort of stuff I'm interested in. But thanks for the information.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

Why should that be if they have sold a million of them? They are aimed at a different market, probably those wanting better sound from the PCs, etc rather than for use in genuine hi-hi systems. It is easy to sell cheap stuff that sounds OK and many such products also sell well, but it's not the sort of stuff I'm interested in. But thanks for the information.

This is all wrong, and your willingness to make bold claims about things you have no knowledge of (and then double down when exposed) is not a charming trait

 

[sigbergaudio]

Not a brand I have ever seen in any hi-fi showroom or heard at any audio show.

Why should that be if they have sold a million of them? They are aimed at a different market, probably those wanting better sound from the PCs, etc rather than for use in genuine hi-hi systems. It is easy to sell cheap stuff that sounds OK and many such products also sell well, but it's not the sort of stuff I'm interested in. But thanks for the information.

They are primarily aimed for studios (which is why you don't typically see them at home audio shows), and they have both relatively cheap and very expensive products.

 

[Hear Here]

This is all wrong, and your willingness to make bold claims about things you have no knowledge of (and then double down when exposed) is not a charming trait

How odd you think that - I was stating facts - nothing else. These are not brands well known in the sphere of hi-fi. Let's leave it as that.

 

[JiiPee]

How odd you think that - I was stating facts - nothing else. These are not brands well known in the sphere of hi-fi. Let's leave it as that.

Just because You have not seen something does not mean that it could not be well-known to others.
Genelec is a a highly respected brand both in HiFi- and professional audio circles. Your comment about "cheap stuff" is hilarious in its ignorance.

 

[mjgraves]

To add more to discussion. I've had Alesis (passive) studio monitors which are quite big, they sounded rather terrible. The integration between the drivers didn't seem to work at all, it sounded like there was a hole in the sound.

Luckily a guy with a recording studio was looking for more speakers to try out so he bought them swiftly

Alesis is cheap junk.

They did try to make a (slightly) more serious powered monitor a while back. Prolinear 820 DSP was an 8" 2-way system, bi-amped with DSP crossovers. The amps were LM3886 based. I had them for a time. Not very good. Still more emphasis on cost than quality.

 

[mjgraves]

Consider JBL. The professional monitors are the M2, LSR708P & LSR705P. All powered systems.

They do make passive models LSR708i & LSR705i. These are quite plainly spelled out as for fixed installations, typically multi-channel/surround installations.

The same technologies are deployed in consumer products like the 43xx series. There are both active and passive models offered. The consumer products are "prettier" to look at, but also much more costly.

LSR708P lists at $1999 each. The comparable JBL 4329P are $4999/pr.

They refer to the 4329P as a "Studio Monitor Powered Loudspeaker" but that's marketing fluff. You won't see them in professional studios. They are marketed to the consumer segment.

It wasn't always this way. Back in the 80s & 90s the 43xx series were serious studio monitors. The first recording studio I ever worked at (Cherry Beach Sound in Toronto) had soffit mounted JBL 4435s driven by Bryston 3Bs. Really good for the time.

I believe active loudspeakers were pioneered by Meridian. Their M1 was introduced in 1977. Curiously, they claim it the "World’s first active loudspeaker for the home."

 

[Flaesh]

in the 80s & 90s the 43xx series were serious studio monitors

IIRC 4430(5) were produced in the 80s-90s

 

[jhaider]

You don't have outlets near the front speakers?

There are two outlets on our front wall: one preexisting one on near the floor and roughly centered on the wall, and one (on the dedicated A/V equipment circuit i had installed) high up behind the TV.

For plate amp mains, that would mean getting a licensed electrician to install 2 more code-compliant outlets on the audio circuit — and lots of patching and painting.

Doesn't the rest of your system require power? Or are your amps and sources in another room?

The latter. In this house source/AVP cabinet is on a side wall and main system amps (Crown DCI network DSP-amps with crazy loud fans) are in a remote rack. The old house had everything but the TV in another room. I switched back to sources and AVP in this house in because I would never go all the way down to the basement to spin a BRA/DVD-A/SACD in the old house.

As someone else mentioned, perhaps we're unusually blessed here in Scandinavia, but normally there's at least one power outlet on any wall, often more if the wall is long.

One power outlet means thick stray dangling cables for at least two of the three speakers. Right in front of your field of view. That’s inelegant. Centralized amplification just makes so much more sense for sophisticated systems. And that can be done with active or passive crossover speakers.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

For plate amp mains, that would mean getting a licensed electrician to install 2 more code-compliant outlets on the audio circuit — and lots of patching and painting.

 

[Bleib]

Alesis is cheap junk.

They did try to make a (slightly) more serious powered monitor a while back. Prolinear 820 DSP was an 8" 2-way system, bi-amped with DSP crossovers. The amps were LM3886 based. I had them for a time. Not very good. Still more emphasis on cost than quality.

It wasn't superbly cheap, and not in this case active either. Not a lot of effort has gone into designing a nice looking unit but rather a normal bland quite ugly studio look to it.
It was also fully marketed for studio use, to be optimal for neutral playback

 

[mjgraves]

It wasn't superbly cheap, and not in this case active either. Not a lot of effort has gone into designing a nice looking unit but rather a normal bland quite ugly studio look to it.
It was also fully marketed for studio use, to be optimal for neutral playback

Aside from the Prolinear range, everyting Alesis had done was to compete with the NS10. Not any kind of mains. Even nearfield mains.

 

[Bleib]

Aside from the Prolinear range, everyting Alesis had done was to compete with the NS10. Not any kind of mains. Even nearfield mains.

Alesis Elevate 6 Premium Passive Single Speaker Studio Monitor : Amazon.in: Musical Instruments

Alesis Elevate 6 Premium Passive Single Speaker Studio Monitor : Amazon.in: Musical Instruments

www.amazon.in

Well, it's gotten great reviews.

According to this quite linear frequency response, I think NS10 is worse

 

[mjgraves]

Alesis Elevate 6 Premium Passive Single Speaker Studio Monitor : Amazon.in: Musical Instruments

Alesis Elevate 6 Premium Passive Single Speaker Studio Monitor : Amazon.in: Musical Instruments

www.amazon.in

Well, it's gotten great reviews.

According to this quite linear frequency response, I think NS10 is worse

Low-end nearfield. Alesis just wasn't very ambitious.

Guitar Center lists the active version for $150 each. Essentially disposable.

 

[sigbergaudio]

There are two outlets on our front wall: one preexisting one on near the floor and roughly centered on the wall, and one (on the dedicated A/V equipment circuit i had installed) high up behind the TV.

For plate amp mains, that would mean getting a licensed electrician to install 2 more code-compliant outlets on the audio circuit — and lots of patching and painting.



The latter. In this house source/AVP cabinet is on a side wall and main system amps (Crown DCI network DSP-amps with crazy loud fans) are in a remote rack. The old house had everything but the TV in another room. I switched back to sources and AVP in this house in because I would never go all the way down to the basement to spin a BRA/DVD-A/SACD in the old house.


One power outlet means thick stray dangling cables for at least two of the three speakers. Right in front of your field of view. That’s inelegant. Centralized amplification just makes so much more sense for sophisticated systems. And that can be done with active or passive crossover speakers.

This feels like a misdirection / excuse to me.

If you don't want active speakers, that perfectly fair. But the fact that you need power doesn't seem like a valid reason to not doi t. There are many ways to hide and/or install cables. But again, if you feel that it's not worth the effort / you're not interested, that's perfectly fine.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Here's my living room, zero visible cables to the speakers. They're behind the "fake" wall (which also has 50mm open insulation behind it). Took me a couple of days, but got me both better acoustics and hidden cables.

 

[Heinrich]

Studio monitors with built-in optimized amps ...

Sinad may not be as good as it cannot be measured easily. Cost optimized, sure. Hiss may originate in a missing resistor devider in front of the tweeter, which in case is a major sin.

... what could be better than using studio monitors?

There are passives that do as well.

... automatically calibrate the EQ for your room.

Do you trust it? I won't. The topic is too complicated for an algorithm. Especially if for the best reasons in the world you would ask for a balanced optimization across different listening positions, or have to consider a companion not sitting on your lap.

Are products made for the pro market a better value than those made for home listening?

Depends as always. But take an appropriate studio speaker for reference, what price of a consumer product may be reasonable. Monitors are often optimized for a single listening position, and many target nearfield listening alone. Sound is focussed, which some appreciate. But in-room, listening while preparing a dinner as a social event, those may not perform best.