Are studio monitors a better buy than passive hifi speakers?

[Behrelec 37]

ivayvr.

I have the 1237a, 8260a, and 8340a models, as well as the 7071a subwoofer, and after using them for several years, I completely agree with you. All of these models are suitable for any living room, as long as there is enough space and you don't mind the appearance.

They produce an incredibly high-quality audio experience. And of course, you don't always have to play them loud, because even at low volumes, all the details sound pleasantly warm and very convincing.
I used to be into DIY horn speakers, but that world has been left behind by the superior Genelecs.


XLR cables are really not a problem, as RCA/XLR adapters are available on the market, as well as XLR-RCA cables if the connections are to an RCA preamplifier, streamer, or something else. I haven't used RCA cables in 20 years. I switched to XLR/XLR cables and connectors a while ago, but now AES/EBU digital cables have surpassed even that, with the sound going directly to Genelec in digital form. This also makes the sound cleaner and more audible.

 

[ivayvr]

Actually, I am not in position to ever play mine really loud. Living in a relatively new apartment building precludes that.
They sound super, regardless of the sound level.
I am using RCA from Bluesound Node to XLR cable going to the sub and XLR to XLR going to the mains.

 

[Matt_Holland]

That figures. A few months ago B&W ran some ads on Facebook about their speakers being chosen for many years by Abbey Road. I asked if they were chosen in a commercially competitive way focussing on the sound, or if they were provided gratis. They ducked that question twice, so it figures that John Bowers saw a marketing opportunity and they’ve provided numerous models ever since. They were certainly there back in 1993 when I was lucky enough to be invited to spend a day sitting in on a Decca recording in studio no. 1.

The speakers sounded OK to me back then, but the biggest disappointment was how much better the live feed through the speakers was compared to the off tape replay. It was relatively early Decca digital for a classical album of Mozart Horn Concertos.

Do you think the tape replay was post mix and processing?

 

[LSPhil]

The whole problem with noise in studio monitors usually comes down to one thing: beginners not realizing that you don’t control volume the same way you would in a hi-fi living room. What do they do? They crank the monitors all the way up to maximum, and then try to ride the volume from the source. Classic rookie mistake.
Consumer products say, something like Canton-Smart are basically designed so you can’t screw this up. They’re idiot-proof by design: just plug in, hit play, and voilà, no philosophical decisions about gain staging required.
But I do understand the horror an audiophile must feel when faced with such a device. Imagine the trauma: a system that just works and doesn’t invite you to “improve” it with exotic cables, magic stones, or whatever ritual tweak is in vogue. For them, music is just raw material, they’re not listening to music, they’re listening to their precious gear.

 

[Hear Here]

It is usually helpful to get yourself informed to avoid guessing (not to use any harsher word):

So, my words "I don't know if they have a Pro Division" cannot be criticised? You have shown that they do offer pro speakers - thanks - but it doesn't alter my assertion that pro speakers are best left in the studio and consumer speakers are best for home use.

Genelc has a very limited G series intended for home use and I am unaware of any range for home use offered by Neuman.
On top of that, Genelec is offering 5 year warranty. So since "the plate amplifiers are not reliable" they may go out of business soon....

Whoever was claiming that active speakers are likely to need amp replacement before cone replacement (or whatever he was suggesting) is bonkers. Amps, particularly if built into a good tough timber enclosure, and designed to power a single driver over a limited frequency range, live a blessed and stress-free life comparted with a general-purpose amp that may have to cope with speakers from 2 to 18 ohm and 80 to 110 dB, over the full frequency range and owned by someone wanting to move them from shelf to shelf, continually change plugs and generally give them a hard time!

 

[Talisman]

The whole problem with noise in studio monitors usually comes down to one thing: beginners not realizing that you don’t control volume the same way you would in a hi-fi living room. What do they do? They crank the monitors all the way up to maximum, and then try to ride the volume from the source. Classic rookie mistake.
Consumer products say, something like Canton-Smart are basically designed so you can’t screw this up. They’re idiot-proof by design: just plug in, hit play, and voilà, no philosophical decisions about gain staging required.
But I do understand the horror an audiophile must feel when faced with such a device. Imagine the trauma: a system that just works and doesn’t invite you to “improve” it with exotic cables, magic stones, or whatever ritual tweak is in vogue. For them, music is just raw material, they’re not listening to music, they’re listening to their precious gear.

Your point is your own, and legitimate, idea, but it gives me food for thought.
Often here on ASR, less-than-perfect instruments (for example, DACs with SNR below 110) are dismissed as junk, not worth buying.
Then the same people often make a point like this:
"Who cares if that monitor has the SNR of the worst '90s all-in-one system from the supermarket, just don't turn the volume up too high without music..."
Am I the only one who sees a certain inconsistency?

 

[Bruce Morgen]

So, my words "I don't know if they have a Pro Division" cannot be criticised? You have shown that they do offer pro speakers - thanks - but it doesn't alter my assertion that pro speakers are best left in the studio and consumer speakers are best for home use.


Whoever was claiming that active speakers are likely to need amp replacement before cone replacement (or whatever he was suggesting) is bonkers. Amps, particularly if built into a good tough timber enclosure, and designed to power a single driver over a limited frequency range, live a blessed and stress-free life comparted with a general-purpose amp that may have to cope with speakers from 2 to 18 ohm and 80 to 110 dB, over the full frequency range and owned by someone wanting to move them from shelf to shelf, continually change plugs and generally give them a hard time!

Right, the amps in decent active speakers are professionally matched to the drivers to which they're connected and more often than not are controlled by limiter circuits that protect both the amp and the driver. There is absolutely no reason to believe they're less reliable than standalone amplifiers.

 

[dagfinn]

Started doubting myself and checked with a reputable source, apparently this is NOT the case, but they did have partially active versions some generations ago. But likely not the current setup.

They list the gear for each studio, Classê Audio amplification is used for B&W, but not exclusively. Interesting read.

Abbey Road: The Home of Music Making

Grammy award-winning engineers, incredible gear, and the best spaces, innovation, learning and events, to create and capture world-moving music.

www.abbeyroad.com

For the lazy:

 

[LSPhil]

Your point is your own, and legitimate, idea, but it gives me food for thought.
Often here on ASR, less-than-perfect instruments (for example, DACs with SNR below 110) are dismissed as junk, not worth buying.
Then the same people often make a point like this:
"Who cares if that monitor has the SNR of the worst '90s all-in-one system from the supermarket, just don't turn the volume up too high without music..."
Am I the only one who sees a certain inconsistency?

Ah yes, the classic ASR paradox:
A DAC with 108 dB SNR? Utter rubbish, straight to the bin.
A monitor with the noise floor of a ‘90s supermarket ghetto blaster? Perfectly fine, old chap – just don’t listen when nothing’s playing.
It’s rather like declaring a Rolls-Royce unfit for use because the cup holder rattles, while praising a rusty Mini as long as you promise not to take it on the motorway.
Consistency, it seems, is optional – unlike measurements.

 

[dagfinn]

Regarding longevity of Genelec, my 1022a from 1985 had service in Finland some 10 years ago before going into storage by previous owner. New surrounds and amps general service; reflow and new capacitors if needed. The 103x-series needs amp service after 25 years or so, mostly reflowing aging solder.

My 1022b I've switched to Hypex FA123, I couldn't be bothered to ship to Finland, and my local service center just suck in service. The old cables for my 1039a were stuck in a soffit mount. Benum My service center didn't know which cable was used, and spent 10 days to find out and then refused to sell me cables they actually had in stock. I made new myself for a fraction of the price, once Genelec told me what cable was in use (8-pole Speakon).

The newer series - I'm not so sure. One of my 4020's has one failed power-management after 10 years, it doesn't go to standby. But servicing modern versions means changing boards or modules, I doubt they do any soldering anymore.

As for actives and cabling... sure it's messy if you want 7.2.4. In a music room it's no big deal, but I've had 10 extra outlets installed.

High-End Listening - Genelec.com

No other high end speakers match Genelec’s ability to let you experience every detail and nuance of a musical performance, just as the artist intended you to hear it. With performance so precise and transparent, we’ll bring you much closer to the music.

www.genelec.com

PS: These have 7.1 wireless support. The future.

'Mesanovic CDM65 Studio Monitor Review'

Dec 17, 2024

This is a review, detailed measurements and listening tests of the Mesanovic CDM65, 3-way DSP speaker with WISA wireless support. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $2,649 each.

The CDM65 comes in extremely dense and solid enclosure. It is quite a handful despite its size, likely due to the two side-firing woofers. It is a DSP speaker and company provides "standard" and "cardioid" profiles you can load using a USB thumb drive:

Company ships the speaker with Cardioid profile and that is how I tested it. Other than a level, there are no controls in the...

• amirm
• Replies: 218
• Forum: Speaker Reviews, Measurements and Discussion

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[Henryk]

I used to be into DIY horn speakers, but that world has been left behind by the superior Genelecs.

Which ones did you try and like?

 

[Nopiano]

Do you think the tape replay was post mix and processing?

I wouldn’t know for sure, Matt, but it was the replay where they called the principals into the control room to hear what they’d just set down. So it was presumably a multi-tracked tape, before any edits or retakes. That’s as far as I can recall.

 

[Somafunk]

Let's put it this way.
Raise your hand if you have a spare active speaker identical to your pair here on asr.

Then raise your hand if you have another unused amplifier besides the one you use with the main speakers.

Shall we do a survey and see?

I’ll raise a glass to your indefatigable perseverance to prove you are right

 

[Talisman]

I’ll raise a glass to your indefatigable perseverance to prove you are right

I have it

 

[jhaider]

jhaider.

Well, with a little money, those little problems with the power outlet can be taken care of, right?

With “a little [more] money” the “better buy” calculus (subject of this thread) starts to shift.

 

[Flaesh]

some pro-gear here on ASR, a lot of them are not great

for example: WE 757, JBL 4430, Kinoshita, JBL M2, Meyer BlueHorn?..))

 

[jhaider]

You can have active front and center and the rest passive. It's possible to mix.

Still to do right requires an outlet near the front speakers, which in most cases means custom work that must meet relevant electrical codes. And then running signal cables as well as likely network.

Remote amps are just so obviously superior from a usability perspective. Should be an option — or the default! — for all active speakers IMO.

You've never heard a comparison of an otherwise reasonable speaker in passive and then active configurations? If the basic design is sound enough, active is universally better.

I don’t think that’s the case. Again I go back to one of the few speaker lined actually designed to be used both ways: JBL 7-series. In single wire configuration it has a DSP augmented passive xover and runs off a single amp channel. In biwire mode the passive is bypassed. The designers claim no advantage for active over equivalent total power into passive. In fact, their recommendation is the other way, e.g. 1x600W passive over 2x300W active.

Where active shines is in doing things passives (even DSP augmented) can’t. For example Neumann’s super linear drivers with the margin of safety provided by electronics rather than BL or suspension limiting.

 

[theREALdotnet]

The thread title is really two questions muddled up into one, akin to "are green shapes better than triangles"...

My opinion on the studio monitor vs domestic speakers question:
- How do we decide what's what? Manufacturer branding/marketing? Accreditation by a studio, broadcaster, engineering body?
- Can speakers be both?
- I've been using studio monitors in my home for decades and that has worked well for me. I have (and have heard) other speakers, too, but like the studio monitors best. YMMV.

My opinion on the active vs passive divide:
- Meh, use what works best for you. Pitch specific setups against each other, not generalised principles.
- I use both: my stereo mains and HT speakers are passive, two out of three subs are active, my PC speakers are active.

 

[Bruce Morgen]

Still to do right requires an outlet near the front speakers, which in most cases means custom work that must meet relevant electrical codes. And then running signal cables as well as likely network.

Huh? Active speakers are like most other pieces of electrically powered gear -- you can power them via the usual switched power strip(s) and/or even appropriately rated extension cords as long the speaker is within a meter or two of an existing outlet "to do it right" enough for the application. The only reason I resorted to passives for my ambience/surround speakers is the fact that I'd rather run inexpensive ordinary speaker wire than XLR cables -- long RCA cables being ill-advised -- and AC power to the two most distant speakers. That way, I can cut and reapply power to the entire system from a switched power strip. Having actives at significant distances from the rest of the system complicates things if you want that level of convenience and, since the ambience/surround role is much less demanding than what the L+R/center/sub front line has to do, the passives can driven by inexpensive chip amps, making it practical to keep a spare or two "in stock". Then again, perhaps I'm missing something about what it takes "to do it right"...

 

[dagfinn]

I know nothing of the other brands you mention.

If you don't know what you are talking about, perhaps you should educate yourself? By 2016 Genelec had made 1 million monitors.

Watch this.