Are studio monitors a better buy than passive hifi speakers?

[Hear Here]

Not entirely true. Distortion can be a bit lower on actives, all other things being equal, just because there are no inductors to saturate.

5 figures? LOL. I dare you to find better speakers than Kali IN-8s for $800 a pair, active or passive.

Oh, but if it's passive, you have to include the cost of an amp, too.

My point was that a professional studio monitor (to be installed in a mastering studio, etc) will likely cost a 5-figure sum. Take a look at brands that supply this type of speaker eg ATC Professional range.

If you believe those Kali speakers can't be bettered, you must be a happy man as your experience is so limited. Keep it that way as otherwise you'll be hankering for genuine hi-fi speakers designed for use in a high quality audio system. I'm sure they are good for the modest cost though.

 

[Hear Here]

Are we talking about Genelecs costing less than 5 figures being bad and being suitable for PC only?!?! Or Neumans?!? or Focals?!?

Do those brands supply speakers to the professional audio industry? I don't know but likely not. Companies such as ATC are more trypical as supplier to pro studios.

Of the brands you mention, Focal is a respected supplier of domestic hi-fi audio kit, but I don't know if they have a Pro Division. I know nothing of the other brands you mention.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

Do those brands supply speakers to the professional audio industry?

Yes
many superb professional studios are built around genelecs and neumanns

 

[Waxx]

Genelec is a standard today in music studio's worldwide, just like Neumann already is from the Klein & Hummel days in Europe, especialy Germany. Both are considered the top notch of the non cardioid studio monitors.

ATC is a relic from the past, who's speakers at one time were top notich, but they did not keep up with tech and so got outdated. Nobody uses the Urei 813A's or Altec 612C's anymore, altough they were at a point also the standard for studio monitoring. They got outdated and surpassed with modern designs just like ATC did in the last decades.

 

[DSJR]

Those are heavy modified (on the crossover) B&W's that are tuned to neutral, not the standard that is sold in shops who tend to be queit bright tuned.

Well, that's bloody naughty, as the whole thing about B&W placing their speakers in studio facilities (they provided loads to Polygram as-was - for free, as they could get promotional kudos from this!!!) is to influence domestic buyers, who end up with something different and arguably inferior if tests are any indication!

 

[Hear Here]

Genelec is a standard today in music studio's worldwide, just like Neumann already is from the Klein & Hummel days in Europe, especialy Germany. Both are considered the top notch of the non cardioid studio monitors.

ATC is a relic from the past, who's speakers at one time were top notich, but they did not keep up with tech and so got outdated. Nobody uses the Urei 813A's or Altec 612C's anymore, altough they were at a point also the standard for studio monitoring. They got outdated and surpassed with modern designs just like ATC did in the last decades.

Yes, ATC seems not to have added anything truly new to their range for decades. apart from changing some of their drivers. I had ATC 50 Actives over 25 years ago and they were long in the tooth then - and they are still listed! I didn't like their sound so resold after less than a year.

The point is that professional studio speakers are unlikely to be the best choice for domestic listening, largely for the reasons described in the new thread just opened.

 

[Talisman]

My comment was an complete and utter piss-take against talisman's comment regarding his 15 amplifiers he has has lying around that he swaps over if a fault appears in one, take it literally if you like though



"With active speakers, if the amplifier has a problem I unplug it and plug in another of my 15 active speakers around the house, in two mins I’m back to listening whilst my speaker is being repaired or a replacement plate amp is sent to me."

Let's put it this way.
Raise your hand if you have a spare active speaker identical to your pair here on asr.

Then raise your hand if you have another unused amplifier besides the one you use with the main speakers.

Shall we do a survey and see?

 

[RexrothPigeon]

The point is that professional studio speakers are unlikely to be the best choice for domestic listening

Then I'm afraid the point is wrong. The only real negative about studio speakers in domestic settings is looks. Otherwise, they're unbeatable.

 

[JohnnyNG]

Big fan of fully active systems but not necessarily limited to “studio monitors” with built-in amps, DSP, etc.

Never really understood the "optimized amps" bit. I suppose it's possible to go with a less-capable amp in a given role if you know it will only be powering an 8-ohm tweeter, for example. Probably much easier job for an amp that's not going through a passive crossover.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

Big fan of fully active systems but not necessarily limited to “studio monitors” with built-in amps, DSP, etc.

Never really understood the "optimized amps" bit. I suppose it's possible to go with a less-capable amp in a given role if you know it will only be powering an 8-ohm tweeter, for example. Probably much easier job for an amp that's not going through a passive crossover.

Have you read this?

 

[Talisman]

My comment was an complete and utter piss-take against talisman's comment regarding his 15 amplifiers he has has lying around that he swaps over if a fault appears in one, take it literally if you like though



"With active speakers, if the amplifier has a problem I unplug it and plug in another of my 15 active speakers around the house, in two mins I’m back to listening whilst my speaker is being repaired or a replacement plate amp is sent to me."

But then I don't understand one thing.
Active speakers have many excellent qualities that no one disputes: they generally deliver better sound quality for the same amount of money invested, and they have active crossovers that allow for much better driver control, and no one denies it.
I responded to those who argued there was no reason to use passive speakers by offering some reasons why passive speakers might be preferable in certain cases, or some instances in which active speakers have limitations. There's no need to tear your hair out trying to justify why active speakers should be universally recognized as superior in any context.

 

[Waxx]

But then I don't understand one thing.
Active speakers have many excellent qualities that no one disputes: they generally deliver better sound quality for the same amount of money invested, and they have active crossovers that allow for much better driver control, and no one denies it.
I responded to those who argued there was no reason to use passive speakers by offering some reasons why passive speakers might be preferable in certain cases, or some instances in which active speakers have limitations. There's no need to tear your hair out trying to justify why active speakers should be universally recognized as superior in any context.

There are many reasons why not to have actives also:

- plate amps die very fast compared to speakers, which is why speakes with build in amps are a "no go" for many i know, and probally the biggest show stopper
- complexity of use and setup when not using plate amps (external amps and dsp) altough that could be solved by the designers.
- to many power outlets needed, especially in multiway setup
- not be able to use the amp you want, limited to the amp delivered by the company.
- not be able to use the dsp that you want
- not be able to update the dsp to a newer model (as this is not etablished tech yet).

It's not black or white, both passive and active have advantages and disadvantages. And you should choose what fit you, not what another one says you should buy. I use both passive and active systems in different setups.

 

[Ktacos]

Studio monitors with built-in optimized amps seem to cost less than buying passive speakers plus and amp. If serious music listeners are going for hearing it "like the engineer intended," what could be better than using studio monitors? And on the higher end of the scale you have speakers like Genelec SAM that can automatically calibrate the EQ for your room. Are products made for the pro market a better value than those made for home listening?

Sounds like you figured it out. Hifi market is largely for big markups on old tech to capitalize on the uninformed consumer, pro market is for stuff that works and is designed right. There are exceptions in both areas for sure, but there is definitely a trend.

I chose some mechano23 diy speakers because I wanted some monitor level speakers that had zero hiss. Sorry to say but even my neumann and genelec speakers have audible hiss.

 

[manisandher]

It's not black or white, both passive and active have advantages and disadvantages. And you should choose what fit you, not what another one says you should buy. I use both passive and active systems in different setups.

Or do what I do (convert passive to active setup, with external DSP and amps), and then you have the best of both worlds.

Mani.

 

[JohnnyNG]

Or do what I do (convert passive to active setup, with external DSP and amps), and then you have the best of both worlds.

Mani.

I think the "built-in" part (where everything needs to be small and close together) is what I see as suboptimal and what may lead to the hiss that seems endemic to even very expensive actives. I use the uber-cheap Fosi V3 Mono for mid and tweeter in my 4-way active setup and they are dead silent from 6" away.

 

[Henryk]

Sounds like you figured it out. Hifi market is largely for big markups on old tech to capitalize on the uninformed consumer, pro market is for stuff that works and is designed right. There are exceptions in both areas for sure, but there is definitely a trend.

I chose some mechano23 diy speakers because I wanted some monitor level speakers that had zero hiss. Sorry to say but even my neumann and genelec speakers have audible hiss.

Which Neumann and Genelec models are you referring to?
I've never heard that before.

 

[ivayvr]

Do those brands supply speakers to the professional audio industry? I don't know but likely not. Companies such as ATC are more trypical as supplier to pro studios.

Of the brands you mention, Focal is a respected supplier of domestic hi-fi audio kit, but I don't know if they have a Pro Division. I know nothing of the other brands you mention.

It is usually helpful to get yourself informed to avoid guessing (not to use any harsher word):

Top-of-the-range speakers and hi-fi equipment | Focal

Focal is a French brand, world leader in the manufacture of high-fidelity solutions. Its "made in France" expertise has been recognized for over 40 years. Enter the world of Focal.

www.focal.com

Studio Monitors - Professional loudspeakers | Focal

Focal Professional monitors are designed to reproduce the sound signal unaltered. The truth and nothing but the truth! These work tools will meet the needs of the largest studios as well as the smallest listening rooms.

www.focal.com

Genelc has a very limited G series intended for home use and I am unaware of any range for home use offered by Neuman.
On top of that, Genelec is offering 5 year warranty. So since "the plate amplifiers are not reliable" they may go out of business soon....

 

[Waxx]

Genelec is an exception, just like Neumann. They actually build stuff for durability and quality and keep part availeble for long after the speaker is out of production. But most brands don't do that. Genelec amps also die long before their speakers, but they last longer than a few year so it's rare in waranty period.

But speakers last for decades, and many older active speakers that are on their own in good shape end up in trash because the amp died and there is no replacement availeble. Also with other known studio monitor brands or major hifi brands like Kef. When the amp is external, those speakers can still be used and when the crossover is known, it's not even that difficult to swap amps and crossover. My fathers Wardale's are +50 years old and still in great shape (with rebuild crossover altough), while the amp he uses now is already the 3th he uses on that set, and he knows how to repair them (he is a retired electronic engineer).

I'm a diy speaker builder myself, and most recent speakers i build are with dsp, but amps and dsp are always external, never a plate amp. I did have active (tannoy reveal) speakers in the past but they are also trashed because of a dead amp with no replacements availeble that fit the cabinet.

 

[Behrelec 37]

ivayvr.

All Genelec models are suitable for home use. Sound pressure levels, speaker size, and price are usually the deciding factors when choosing a product.
Subwoofers are also a perfect fit, as almost all of these models include a room correction feature that improves sound reproduction and comfort.


Genelec mainly uses Class D amplifiers in its products, which offer excellent quality, power efficiency, and kick time duration. Genelec also has an effective maintenance service, unlike roughly 80 percent of the world's speaker brands.

 

[ivayvr]

ivayvr.

All Genelec models are suitable for home use. Sound pressure levels, speaker size, and price are usually the deciding factors when choosing a product.
Subwoofers are also a perfect fit, as almost all of these models include a room correction feature that improves sound reproduction and comfort.

I am fully aware of that, my main 2.1 system is Genelec.
What I meant to say is that only their G line is specifically marketed as suitable for home audio. In no way their main line is not suitable for the home audio. Main and the only difference is the RCA connectors on their G line, rather than the usual XLR .