Are studio monitors a better buy than passive hifi speakers?

[olds1959special]

Right, but this is irrelevant in the context of music playback.

I’m not sure about that?

 

[Karmacoma]

I’m not sure about that?

It is until proven otherwise. That's how it works.

 

[olds1959special]

It is until proven otherwise.

What about harmonics from playback that can manifest themselves in ultra high frequencies?

 

[kyuu]

What about harmonics from playback that can manifest themselves in ultra high frequencies?

Those would be the opposite of high intensity, assuming they even exist at the end of the playback chain.

 

[olds1959special]

Those would be the opposite of high intensity, assuming they even exist at the end of the playback chain.

But they may exist, and it seems logical they would, with the right setup. Overtones are in sounds.

 

[Karmacoma]

What about harmonics from playback that can manifest themselves in ultra high frequencies?

By ''that's how it works'' i mean that's how rationality works. Do what you want, if you want to make claims and be taken seriously bring the evidence.

 

[sigbergaudio]

I’m not sure about that?

If you played normal music loud enough for ultrasonic overtones to be audible, you'd likely die. Either from your flesh melting or your house falling on your head.

 

[olds1959special]

If you played normal music loud enough for ultrasonic overtones to be audible, you'd likely die. Either from your flesh melting or your house falling on your head.

That’s about how loud I listen usually. My neighbors love me. (Not really but around 100 dB can be fun.)

 

[JustJones]

What about harmonics from playback that can manifest themselves in ultra high frequencies?

Are there harmonics from home audio speakers that reach UHF? Wouldn't that interfere with television broadcasting, Wi-fi, cell phones ?

 

[olds1959special]

Are there harmonics from home audio speakers that reach UHF? Wouldn't that interfere with television broadcasting, Wi-fi, cell phones ?

I would think as the overtones continue into that range they would diminish as they get higher.

 

[kyuu]

But they may exist, and it seems logical they would, with the right setup. Overtones are in sounds.

Again, even assuming they make it through the playback system (not filtered out by electronics and speaker is actually capable of producing them), the levels will be extremely low. 20kHz is defined as the high end of normal, healthy human hearing because above that point the threshold of detection and the threshold of pain are the same. Meaning, even if you had perfect hearing, if you could detect these ultrasonic sounds they'd be causing you physical pain.

The notion that they are causing audible issues while being far, far, far below the threshold for audibility is a pretty wild claim that would need some strong evidence before it's worth worrying about.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

That’s about how loud I listen usually.

Ah I didn't want to say anything, but yeah, that explains why your flesh is so melted and you are dead.

More seriously, you may have fewer wrong ideas if you lay off the chatgpt

 

[gnarly]

Why do so many equate active with an amp inside the speaker, and needing AC power?

That's not active, it's a subset of active, which can have the amp either inside or outside the speaker.
Active simply means there are line level crossovers before multiple-amp channels.

The idea active needs an AC outlet is bogus.
Active speakers with external amps need multi-channel speaker cables, but no other wiring.

Powered, or self-powered, are the correct terms for an active speaker with an amp in the speaker.

 

[kyuu]

Why do so many equate active with an amp inside the speaker, and needing AC power?

Because that is the case for the vast majority of the market? There aren't many options for active speakers with outboard amps in the residential or even commercial market that I'm aware of.

 

[macrog]

Because that is the case for the vast majority of the market? There aren't many options for active speakers with outboard amps in the residential or even commercial market that I'm aware of.

I suppose that most of us are placating our spouses and amps built into speakers improves spousal acceptance leading to approval for bigger speakers as less perceived boxes and clutter.

I have settled on Kii BXT speakers in one listening room and ATC SCM100ASLs (current spec) in my second listening room (just about finished). Pretty much everyone who has heard both sets of speakers at my place has preferred the ATCs but I have to admit the the low bass on the Kii BXTs is hard to live without. I have purchased a pair of Perlisten D215S subwoofers to augment the ATCs is there new listening room with hopes of matching the depth and resolution of the Kii BXTs.

I could never go back to passive speakers.

Passive Speakers I have owned:

Yamaha NS1000
Yamaha NS1000M
Naim SBL
Spendor SP9/1
Apogee Duetta
Monitor Audio GR60
Monitor Audio GS60
Monitor Audio PL300
Quad ESL2905
Royd Sovereign
Linn Kan

Active Speakers I have owned

Linn Keilidh
Linn Ninkas
Kef LS50 wireless
Kef LS50 wireless 2
and of course the Kii BXTs and the ATC SCM100ASLs

my experience has been that for every speaker I have heard in active and passive variants the active version was more detailed, had better imaging and lower bass.

 

[dagfinn]

You should be surprised by that, because everything we know so far implies that this is not the case.

There's been research done for a long time. One big problem is that the amount of ultrasound from music is very low powered as you say, and mostly lost in air. One of the studies I read long ago, made speakers with ultrasound specs, at a high cost and without very good result. Follow up study made it easier, they built a ultrasound generator and dropped the "ultrasonic ocean sounds". I think they found that some ultrasound waves could be associated with "feel-good" brainwave effects (this is a bit sketchy, from not the best memory). Maybe read the posted papers in stead.

It's been a while since I read up on it, I see more research has been done - also with music/instruments. Here are some examples.

Inaudible high-frequency sounds affect brain activity: hypersonic effect - PubMed

Although it is generally accepted that humans cannot perceive sounds in the frequency range above 20 kHz, the question of whether the existence of such "inaudible" high-frequency components may affect the acoustic perception of audible sounds remains unanswered. In this study, we used...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Frequencies of inaudible high-frequency sounds differentially affect brain activity: positive and negative hypersonic effects - PubMed

The hypersonic effect is a phenomenon in which sounds containing significant quantities of non-stationary high-frequency components (HFCs) above the human audible range (max. 20 kHz) activate the midbrain and diencephalon and evoke various physiological, psychological and behavioral responses...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The role of biological system other than auditory air-conduction in the emergence of the hypersonic effect - PubMed

Although human beings cannot perceive elastic vibrations in the frequency range above 20 kHz, nonstationary sounds containing a wealth of inaudible high-frequency components (HFC) above the human audible range activate deep-lying brain structures, including the brainstem and thalamus and evoke...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Subjective effects of broadband water sounds with inaudible high-frequency components - PubMed

This study aimed to investigate the effects of reproducing an ultrasonic sound above 20 kHz on the subjective impressions of water sounds using psychological and physiological information obtained by the semantic differential method and electroencephalography (EEG), respectively. The results...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The problem as I see it, if it works, all you need is a cheap ultrasound generator, not speakers reaching 45kHz.
For me, it's the music I can actually percieve that makes me feel good, and the better the sound, the stronger the emotional effect, which is what music is about .

 

[olds1959special]

The problem as I see it, if it works, all you need is a cheap ultrasound generator, not speakers reaching 45kHz.
For me, it's the music I can actually percieve that makes me feel good, and the better the sound, the stronger the emotional effect, which is what music is about .

I don't think it's normal to think we can perceive ultrasonic frequencies, especially in recorded music, but that doesn't mean we can't. What about the harmonics of the playback devices? Isn't it possible to be subconsciously aware of ultrasonics? I think it makes sense for speakers to be able to reach 45kHz.

 

[dagfinn]

I don't think it's normal to think we can perceive ultrasonic frequencies, especially in recorded music, but that doesn't mean we can't. What about the harmonics of the playback devices? Isn't it possible to be subconsciously aware of ultrasonics? I think it makes sense for speakers to be able to reach 45kHz.

Here is the hi-res waveform from a modern Grammy nominated recording. See the noiseshaping? You want to "hear" or "feel" that?
Buy the Genelec 8380a and enjoy ! I suggest you read some of the research I posted, some of it is quite interesting.

 

[Philbo King]

Are there harmonics from home audio speakers that reach UHF? Wouldn't that interfere with television broadcasting, Wi-fi, cell phones ?

Audio (air pressure variations) and radiated electromagnetic RF energy are two very different things. Does not compute...

 

[Karmacoma]

View attachment 489166
Here is the hi-res waveform from a modern Grammy nominated recording. See the noiseshaping? You want to "hear" or "feel" that?
Buy the Genelec 8380a and enjoy ! I suggest you read some of the research I posted, some of it is quite interesting.

If you love your dog, don't listen to Hi-res music.