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Are speakers actually already a solved problem?

Meaning, the real challenge of reproducing the sound of a grand piano is more about the limitations of stereo sound.
+1. It’s probably why Steinway Lyngdorf Model D works. Sadly it’s the same price as the piano!

So my main question is: Why can't the speaker manufacturers come to the same conclusion of how the ultimate dispersion characteristics should be?


Listening distance is also a proxy for other stuff in the room and room size. The ideal dispersion is room and speaker position dependent. That’s why Meyer Sound offers the same speaker with different dispersion options.
 
I think whether speakers are a solved problem is the wrong question. We need to solve speakers + room (or headphones + individual head).
 
The other challenge is to take a grand piano, listen to it in a real room and compare it to the recording of a piano on any level of system. Even Amir will say that they generate a different sound. (It’s all due to the way the sound is produced and dispersion characteristics.)
Wouldn't it be more logical, I ask, to compare the sound of the grand piano to its recording made in the same room?
 
So my main question is: Why can't the speaker manufacturers come to the same conclusion of how the ultimate dispersion characteristics should be?

I just finished typing this post on my show report. I asked a speaker designer a similar question:

Me: "Can speakers designed for 2 channel be used for home theatre?"
Him: "It depends on how wide your seating area is. 2 channel speakers typically have more narrow directivity and a smaller sweet spot. Narrow directivity is great if you want to avoid side wall reflections, but not if you want to provide a good experience for more listeners who may be sitting quite far off axis".

So the answer is: different people have different rooms, and may need to cater for more than one listener. Also different taste as to how much room influence they want.
 
What does a grand piano sound in a 25 m2 room at about 3 m away from it? And how often is that the listening environment? I figure it's not that common.
(about 270 square feet 11 feet away)

Rather, I figure what we need to reproduce a grand piano in a 250 m2 room and 10 m away from it.

And what we actually reproduce is what the audio engineers thought sounded closest to the above on their reference system, or to be even more accurate, what we reproduce is what the engineers thought would translate into the above on a consumer system based on what they heard on their reference system.

That's before even considering sounds that have no physical instruments to refer to.

Then there are things like BACCH or the Smyth Realizer, which according to their owners make recordings sound more real, yet no one has ever mastered a recording with those DSPs in mind, they are unquestionably not faithful to the recording.
 
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What does a grand piano sound in a 25 m2 room at about 3 m away from it? And how often is that the listening environment? I figure it's not that common.
(about 270 square feet 11 feet away)

Rather, I figure what we need to reproduce a grand piano in a 250 m2 room and 10 m away from it.

And what we actually reproduce is what the audio engineers thought sounded closest to the above on their reference system, or to be even more accurate, what we reproduce is what the engineers thought would translate into the above on a consumer system based on what they heard on their reference system.

That's before even considering sounds that have no physical instruments to refer to.

Then there are things like BACCH or the Smyth Realizer, which according to their owners make recordings sound more real, yet no one has ever mastered a recording with those DSPs in mind, they are unquestionably not faithful to the recording.
An excellent pianist will not play the same way in a 25 m2 living room as in a large room... The pianissimo will not be the same... neither will the fortissimo. And a great pianist will give the illusion of getting the maximum sound level from the piano he plays in a small room even though he will not exceed double fortissimo...
 
An excellent pianist will not play the same way in a 25 m2 living room as in a large room... The pianissimo will not be the same... neither will the fortissimo. And a great pianist will give the illusion of getting the maximum sound level from the piano he plays in a small room even though he will not exceed double fortissimo...
Agreed, my point trying to reproduce the full sound output of a grand piano wasn't necessary for good reproduction. It's an instrument meant to fill a concert hall. We only need to reproduce the volume of that piano (and how the pianist is playing it) in a typical listening position, and that's a lot easier for a speaker system.

And that's without taking into account the sound engineers who will make mastering decisions so that their recording sounds good on airpods, on sound bars and a classic Hi-Fi system alike. And that different engineers will end up making different choices.
 
Wouldn't it be more logical, I ask, to compare the sound of the grand piano to its recording made in the same room?
As has been touched on, propagation from an actual instrument is very different from a pair of loudspeakers, microphone position makes a huge difference, one can only really hope for the finest reproduction of the recording .
Keith
 
Agreed, my point trying to reproduce the full sound output of a grand piano wasn't necessary for good reproduction. It's an instrument meant to fill a concert hall. We only need to reproduce the volume of that piano (and how the pianist is playing it) in a typical listening position, and that's a lot easier for a speaker system.

And that's without taking into account the sound engineers who will make mastering decisions so that their recording sounds good on airpods, on sound bars and a classic Hi-Fi system alike. And that different engineers will end up making different choices.
A grand piano is intended to be played in a room that extends from the grand salon to the Colon Theater in Buenos Aires... Like a little violin or a cello.
The crap that bad record publishers do is another story.
 
Headphones are the closest to being a solved problem as you take the room out of the equation
I don't see that happening with speakers anytime soon
 
The problem with a comparison like that is that a “double effect” of the reflections from the room would occur when listening to the playback of the recording made in the same room.

Absolutely.

The aforementioned Cabasse manufacturer acknowledged that issue. Thus, the live vs recording comparisons where made in acoustically suitable rooms, but the audience where briefed nevertheless about that issue.

I translate from French the text of a Cabasse leaflet of the time about this kind of comparison : "What causes can lead to audible differences [between live and the reproduction of the recorded sound]? [...] Reverberation plays an important role: recorded by the microphones, it will appear twice when listening to the Hi-fi system but only once when listening to the orchestra live."
 
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