Are sound absorbers safe for our health?

[caught gesture]

There’s much press-driven bullshit behind many of these fears.

There’s much industry lying behind many of these realities.

 

[krabapple]

Is anyone here measuring before/after so you know what your treatment has actually done?

 

[SIY]

There’s much industry lying behind many of these realities.

Uh huh.

 

[DonH56]

Is anyone here measuring before/after so you know what your treatment has actually done?

Always.

 

[caught gesture]

Is anyone here measuring before/after so you know what your treatment has actually done?

If you are serious about making positive changes, it is the best way.

 

[Yevhen]

Is anyone here measuring before/after so you know what your treatment has actually done?

I had to put 5 panels in my new living room just to live comfortably there, not even talking about the music. There was so much echo coming from the brick walls and concrete ceiling, like in the cave.

I also did some funny experiments. I tried to make some kind of a Helmholtz resonator by putting up side down a wooden box 35x35x35cm with an absorber inside. By changing the gap between the box and floor I could finetune the frequency and could measure some dip in the freq response of the speakers. Unfortunately, the dip was measurable only 5cm around my Helmholtz resonator and did kill that 40Hz room mode in other corners.

 

[Yevhen]

What do you guys think about Helmholtz resonators? Could it be more effective and more eco-friendly compared to the bass traps? You probably need much less absorber there, right?

 

[caught gesture]

What do you guys think about Helmholtz resonators? Could it be more effective and more eco-friendly compared to the bass traps? You probably need much less absorber there, right?

Or you could investigate Limp Mass Membranes if you are trying to address a specific low frequency. They work best up against the wall so take up less room. Resonant absorbers, like Helmholtz and Limp Mass, are best for targeting problem frequencies. Porous absorbers are for broadband coverage.

 

[DLF]

DIY Acoustics Absorber Material

The material inside the panels were wrapped in thin plastic. Includes before and after measurements.

PS. I tried listening to my speakers with a plastic bag over them. No obvious difference.

 

[Yevhen]

Includes before and after measurements.

Thanks, but I could not find those...

 

[DLF]

Thanks, but I could not find those...

"Looking at the data"

 

[antennaguru]

100 people died in "The Station" night club fire in 2003. The band Great White's pyrotechnics ignited foam sound absorption material. The night club owners and the band manager were sentenced to 15 years in prison, and civil settlements topped $100 million.

The Station nightclub fire - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[tmtomh]

I was concerned about this issue when I first started putting panels in my listening room. I was going to go with the product made of recycled denim, but I came across information that this is actually the worst, not because of the denim, but because of the anti-mold agent they treat the product with and the ability of that agent to become airborne and cause respiratory issues.

The articles I read - which included peer-reviewed academic studies - seemed to conclude that mineral wool was the least dangerous (compared to fiberglass and the recycled denim product) because it produces airborne particles that are the least likely to remain lodged in the lungs. Apparently that's the key issue - not so much whether you can breathe stuff in, but rather whether or not you can expel it and get rid of it so it doesn't stay in your lungs forever.

Finally, I think it's also worth noting that absorber panels have been used for many decades and I have been unable to find any documented evidence of a correlation (let alone a causal link) between, say, being a studio engineer and the onset of lung disease or respiratory problems later in life. I'm just one person, and while an academic, I am not a specialist in this area. But these days anyone can search for studies like that, and I haven't found any. The studies I came across assessing and comparing the health impacts of different treatment materials also suggested that the risks of all the materials are low. I would be interested to know if anyone else has found any studies on this question.

In the absence of that, what we have is an understanding of a basic mechanism - fibers from various kinds of absorbers can potentially get into the air because they are in some cases smaller than the gaps in the weave of the acoustically transparent material the covers the absorber. But as members of this forum know very well, a basic mechanism does not simply translate into a significant effect - for example 10dB lower SINAD cannot simply be translated into audibly worse performance in all cases - it depends on the range of SINAD we're dealing with. And increased shielding on interconnects cannot be shown to improve sound or reduce interference if the regular level of shielding on generic interconnects already provides sufficient protection from interference.

So the fact that fibers can get into the air does not tell us how much of the fibrous material actually does get into the air, and it does not tell us how much of that airborne material is likely to be breathed in by someone in the average home-audio use-case (especially since the material is getting released in minuscule amounts compared to when you're shoving batts of insulation into wall cavities during construction), and it does not tell us how that average likely amount compares with levels that are known to pose a health risk (or as noted above with levels that might already exist in the average home).

 

[o2so]

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/49942758_Fiber_glass_exposure_and_human_respiratory_system_cancer_risk_Lack_of_evidence_persists_since_2001_IARC_re-evaluation

 

[Holmz]

Sorry, cotton couch and Hempcrete panels

I would be happy to build an entire house out of hemp blocks, but you'll probably need a steam isolation on the inside and will close the cells of that hempcrete walls anyway

I imagine that the fumes from burning hemp, or other canibis bales could be a problem.

 

[Trdat]

One sniff of a toxin say varnish/paint will render me a useless object for about 3 days so I take my health and household toxins management very seriously, so I get your question. But, in saying that my absorbers are covered with a fairly robust fabric and I have never had a problem. Even when handling it, if I use a mask and gloves I am usually okay, even one or two inhalations without a mask I am still okay with fiberglass or glasswool. On the other hand when it comes to working with MDF or paint(in my basement) or new sofa's, beds, or plastics(some plastics) in the household or newly painted objects brought up to the apartment I'm down and out easy. Actually, any MDF cut or newly painted speaker I usually keep in the basement for 6 months before bringing it up and often put it under sun to increase speed off-gassing.

I can't say that I have been effected by the glasswool negatively, at least without knowing that is and this is coming from a overly sensitive person. Hope this helps.

 

[pseudoid]

I consider wsj to be one of my most highly reliable source of accurate information. [of course, after ASR!]
Here is "what we know as of today" about those mofo class of chemicals under the PFAS (perfluoroalkyl and polyfluoroalkyl) family umbrella:
[IMO: The lack of 'true' scientific discovery (re: PFAS) is shameful! The following are extracts which are not link-able readily.]

Nearly everyone in the U.S. is believed to have some level of PFAS in their blood, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

Known as forever chemicals because they take a long time to break down, PFAS substances were used for decades in carpeting, clothing, food packaging, firefighting foam, cosmetics and other consumer and industrial products. Hundreds of firefighters and others have also alleged in lawsuits that their exposure to PFAS caused cancers, and other health problems are part of some 3,000 PFAS cases consolidated in federal court in South Carolina.

PFAS might pass to food from packaging, or produce and dairy could have PFAS from PFAS-tainted sludge used as a fertilizer.
Evidence so far suggests that ingested PFAS is absorbed from the intestine, and can travel to the liver, pass into bile and get stored in the gallbladder,...
When bile enters the small intestine during digestion, the PFAS gets re- absorbed into the bloodstream... [said an environmental toxicologist at East Carolina University]
The U.S. lacks comprehensive national testing of PFAS in blood, which makes it difficult to know who is most exposed... [per environmental epidemiologist at North Carolina U]

Scientists have found links between PFAS and a handful of health problems, including:
*High cholesterol
*Decreased immune response to vaccines
*Thyroid disease
*Ulcerative colitis
*Breast cancer
*Testicular cancer
*Increased risk of kidney cancer
*High Blood Pressure (during pregnancy)
*Linked to low birth weight
*Increased threat to fetuses/infants (during brain/organ development)
*Transmission thru placenta
*Transmission thru breast milk
[per 2022 report by the National Academies of Science, Engineering and Medicine and other sources]

 

[pseudoid]

I think it is Amazon that has designed their own sound absorbing material for use in their office complexes (cube-farms).
I had attempted to get some details on the material referenced as "the Cube" but I only got as far as '20dB absorption'... from un-trusted sources.
Microsoft decided that my legit 'Office' product was worthy of 'de-activation', so the little data that I had on the material was on my Office/OneNote and currently resides in software purgatory... until resolved to my favor.
Few screen captures (thank you SnagIt) for "the Cube":

Material is not obnoxious looking (nor probably noxious-sniffing).
imho: If designed by Amazon; *the price should be quite reasonable, *ethically/organically grown and *will improve your complexion...

CORRECTION: The manufacturer is FaceBook owner Meta and NOT Amazon as earlier stated.
Here is one article

 

[Yevhen]

I think it is Amazon that has designed their own sound absorbing material for use in their office complexes (cube-farms).
I had attempted to get some details on the material referenced as "the Cube" but I only got as far as '20dB absorption'... from un-trusted sources.
Microsoft decided that my legit 'Office' product was worthy of 'de-activation', so the little data that I had on the material was on my Office/OneNote and currently resides in software purgatory... until resolved to my favor.
Few screen captures (thank you SnagIt) for "the Cube":
View attachment 271984View attachment 271985View attachment 271986
Material is not obnoxious looking (nor probably noxious-sniffing).
imho: If designed by Amazon; *the price should be quite reasonable, *ethically/organically grown and *will improve your complexion...

Thanks! Could you please share the link? I can't find it