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Are my bass traps not working? Some changes in var smoothed frequency response, but not much in ERB smoothed one.

Poor mans version of wave forming? I would name it the father/mother of the young childs waveforming and art :D yes, it's mono, but that's not really a big issue.
 
It is to me. Anything above 50 hz I want in true stereo
Interesting - did you test If you´re able to locate the direction these frequencies come frome? Besides, isn´t the bass in stereomusic mostly mono mixed and only few recordings use stereobass? But I guess we´re offtopic now :eek:
 
Interesting - did you test If you´re able to locate the direction these frequencies come frome? Besides, isn´t the bass in stereomusic mostly mono mixed and only few recordings use stereobass? But I guess we´re offtopic now :eek:
No. I rely on the research of experts in spatial audio. If JJ Johnston and Edgar Choueiri both say there are spatial cues all the down to 50-60 hz I want true stereo down to 50 hz.

As for commercial recordings, based on what I hear from various mastering and recording engineers bass generally isn’t summed to mono at all. And when it is it starts at around 60 hz
 
No. I rely on the research of experts in spatial audio. If JJ Johnston and Edgar Choueiri both say there are spatial cues all the down to 50-60 hz I want true stereo down to 50 hz.

As for commercial recordings, based on what I hear from various mastering and recording engineers bass generally isn’t summed to mono at all. And when it is it starts at around 60 hz
I think we may disagree here, but that´s not an problem and we are already a long time offtopic, so I would assume to stop our nice discussion (at least here) :D I just want to propose an example everybody can try at home: Playing different low test tones (with just one box), closing the eyes and spinning left/right in circles until you no longer have any idea where the box was. Then try to “acoustically find” the box. Maybe starting with 80 hz and then going up (or down).
 
Playing different low test tones (with just one box), closing the eyes and spinning left/right in circles until you no longer have any idea where the box was. Then try to “acoustically find” the box. Maybe starting with 80 hz and then going up (or down).

I think people will reach different conclusions there, depending on their subwoofers. The more distortion (i.e. harmonics) they produce the easier they will be to locate. Small woofers and/or high playback volume will exacerbate this.

Then there are things like port chuffing and vibrating close-by furniture etc., that “help” locating the sub.
 
I think the best solution to deal with bass in really small rooms is
a) to produce as few room modes as possible
b) use active absorption because passive treatments require a lot of space to be any effective.

Both of those requirements are realized with a double bass array. Software like Trinnov waveforming or Dirac ART can improve the results even further.
 
But DBA doesn't address the most sensitive area in the bass. Sub frequencies isn't the most crucial area.

SBA would address both.
 
But DBA doesn't address the most sensitive area in the bass. Sub frequencies isn't the most crucial area.

SBA would address both.
What do you mean by most sensitive area?

A DBA with 1.25m distance between drivers will create a plane wave up to 137Hz and therefore easily deals with bass modes up to the crossover frequency.
Above the crossover frequency where the DBA doesn't do anything anymore, passive absorption can be used. Dirac ART would extend the effectiveness of the DBA up to 150Hz.

Two shallow baffle walls filled with absorption material and shallow subs for the bass array (~25cm) should be able to reduce bass resonances even in such a small room. A SBA would require too much absorption in the rear for small rooms imho.

I've also seen people installing a bass array into a deep ceiling absorber with drivers producing the plane wave and other delayed and inverted drivers absorbing the reflected wave.
 
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But DBA doesn't address the most sensitive area in the bass. Sub frequencies isn't the most crucial area.

SBA would address both.
DBA configurations are often used until above 100hz - what do you mean with most sensitive area?
 
What do you mean by most sensitive area?

A DBA with 1.25m distance between drivers will create a plane wave up to 137Hz and therefore easily deals with bass modes up to the crossover frequency.
Above the crossover frequency where the DBA doesn't do anything anymore, passive absorption can be used. Dirac ART would extend the effectiveness of the DBA up to 150Hz.

Two shallow baffle walls filled with absorption material and shallow subs for the bass array (~25cm) should be able to reduce bass resonances even in such a small room. A SBA would require too much absorption in the rear for small rooms imho.

I've also seen people installing a bass array into a deep ceiling absorber with drivers producing the plane wave and other delayed and inverted drivers absorbing the reflected wave.
I would like to see a measurement of a successful setup running it that high.

The distance between the woofers are starting to get high vs frequency. And you would have to place the front speakers very close to the front wall for a good integration. And is that the best position for the speakers?
And you'll be running mono fairly high in frequency of course.
 
I would like to see a measurement of a successful setup running it that high.

The distance between the woofers are starting to get high vs frequency. And you would have to place the front speakers very close to the front wall for a good integration. And is that the best position for the speakers?
And you'll be running mono fairly high in frequency of course.
The front speakers should optimally be in wall speakers mounted in the baffle wall. In most installations I've seen of of similar setups they are in the corner of the room for that optimal 30 degree angle
 
The front speakers should optimally be in wall speakers mounted in the baffle wall. In most installations I've seen of of similar setups they are in the corner of the room for that optimal 30 degree angle
In wall speakers are going to be a nonstarter for many audiophiles, myself included
 
In wall speakers are going to be a nonstarter for many audiophiles, myself included
Well, I was talking about the optimal solution for a really small room which requires a double bass array. With a bass array already installed, installing in/on wall speakers for the front LCR or just for stereo L/R is not an issue.
This would give you the cleanest setup that requires the least amount of floor space.

The second best option is probably a multisub setup with Dirac ART. If the room is really small I would still recommend on-wall speakers like wall mounted Genelecs or Neumanns to clear up some space
 
Well, I was talking about the optimal solution for a really small room which requires a double bass array. With a bass array already installed, installing in/on wall speakers for the front LCR or just for stereo L/R is not an issue.
This would give you the cleanest setup that requires the least amount of floor space.

The second best option is probably a multisub setup with Dirac ART. If the room is really small I would still recommend on-wall speakers like wall mounted Genelecs or Neumanns to clear up some space
All seems like solid advice for someone looking to build a home theater sound system.

Mine is a music only two channel system with a dedicated room. I’m already waist deep in customizing the room with built in acoustic absorption including a wide band bass trap built into the ceiling.

It’s an attempt at a no compromise approach to stereo playback. Room should be done next week when the new subwoofers arrive
 
All seems like solid advice for someone looking to build a home theater sound system.

Mine is a music only two channel system with a dedicated room. I’m already waist deep in customizing the room with built in acoustic absorption including a wide band bass trap built into the ceiling.

It’s an attempt at a no compromise approach to stereo playback. Room should be done next week when the new subwoofers arrive
The approach I recommended is good for stereo as well as home theatre.

Once you go for large absorber elements, ceiling clouds and baffles walls for bass arrays, it's only a matter of installing speakers into those elements if you want to get from stereo to multichannel.

For a more realistic setup without going crazy with custom installations, I would get a good pair of near field spekers like KH120 II and some subs and at least 20cm deep absorption to deal with the upper bass/lower mids.
I have a similar setup in my office and get acceptable results
 
The approach I recommended is good for stereo as well as home theatre.

Once you go for large absorber elements, ceiling clouds and baffles walls for bass arrays, it's only a matter of installing speakers into those elements if you want to get from stereo to multichannel.

For a more realistic setup without going crazy with custom installations, I would get a good pair of near field spekers like KH120 II and some subs and at least 20cm deep absorption to deal with the upper bass/lower mids.
I have a similar setup in my office and get acceptable results
My room has about 220 cubic feet of rockwool covering the front, back and side walls. The ceiling trap has about 2,000 cubic feet of rockwool and R-11 fiber glass. And of course heavy pile carpet on an ultra thick pad with plenty of “throw” absorbers standing buy to address any remaining reflections.

The room is dead. If there are any residual issues in the bass after all of that I have a pair of the PSI AVAA C20s to address it.

I’m good with my Sanders 10E speakers and the incoming pair of Perlisten D212s subs as my speakers of choice. Ideal for the BACCH DSPs
 
My room has about 220 cubic feet of rockwool covering the front, back and side walls. The ceiling trap has about 2,000 cubic feet of rockwool and R-11 fiber glass. And of course heavy pile carpet on an ultra thick pad with plenty of “throw” absorbers standing buy to address any remaining reflections.

The room is dead. If there are any residual issues in the bass after all of that I have a pair of the PSI AVAA C20s to address it.

I’m good with my Sanders 10E speakers and the incoming pair of Perlisten D212s subs as my speakers of choice. Ideal for the BACCH DSPs
Sounds like an Endgame Stereo setup to me.
I know that BACCH requires a lot of absorption but does the BACCH DSP also retrieve some of the liveliness of the recording that would otherwise sound way too dry with BACCH disabled in a room like that?
 
Sounds like an Endgame Stereo setup to me.
I know that BACCH requires a lot of absorption but does the BACCH DSP also retrieve some of the liveliness of the recording that would otherwise sound way too dry with BACCH disabled in a room like that?
It decodes the spatial cues in the recording that are masked and contaminated by the cross talk. There is no lack of liveliness unless it’s in the recording. The illusion of teleportation to another venue is quite convincing and fun as ****
 
Sounds like an interesting setup - do you have a project thread / picture gallery? When you say the room is "dead", about which reverb are we talking about?

I've also experimented with the Avaa, but then decided to go with dba - whatever, most important, someone enjoys the music.
 
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