Are mono amplifiers superior to stereo amplifiers ?

[Ultrasonic]

Would not a stereo amp have crosstalk while two mono amps have none?

Yes but this is only an actual benefit if the crosstalk in a stereo amp is high enough to be a problem...

 

[john61ct]

Difference is cabling lengths and looks, not sq nor power

and extra cost

 

[john61ct]

could I add a minidsp for two stereo subs ?

Yes

>> If you want stereo subs, get Wiim Ultra and split the output signal full-range, e.g. Eitr 2 or Topping 10S.

This way works to active powered speakers & subs with their own built in crossover etc DSP built in.

With a miniDSP instead that puts an HPF on one stereo output to the main fullrange speakers, and LPF or bandpass on a sub pair.

In both cases can start with just one, add another later, can switch between 2x mono vs stereo to test, very flexible.

Do not try to use WAU for anything but 2.1, very inflexible.

 

[Ultrasonic]

With a miniDSP instead that puts an HPF on one stereo output to the main fullrange speakers, and LPF or bandpass on a sub pair.

Note that the Wiim already does this, and also attempts to account for time delays, including delaying the signal to the main speakers if required (not sure on max. delay). It was partly because of the latter automated process that I advised sticking with a single sub with the Wiim above. There may be some exceptions but I'd also say generally the delay options on subs themselves aren't great, making your first suggestion above one I'd be very cautious advocating myself.

 

[john61ct]

Note that the Wiim already does this

My post was only about doing STEREO subs.

And yes I agree miniDSP is the better option between those two.

There are dozens of other ways too, but using the Wiim itself is not one of them

 

[antcollinet]

Coming back to you about 3E A7 Mono versa stereo. I still read in spite of what is said that putting out the extra 100€ for two monos would be for big orchestra Beethoven and alike, an advantage in left right balance if :
I put the mono amps right behind the speakers with only 50cm amp to speaker câbles ?

The cables between the Wiim Ultra and the mono amps would then be longer, about 2 meters.

It is in general better to have short analogue interconnect between your source/preamp and power amp, and long speaker cables than the other way around. Analogue interconnect can pick up noise - speaker cables not so much.

It is an audiophile myth that short speaker cables are a benefit of Mono amps.

 

[RaymondFromThePyrénéés]

Thank you Ultrasonic. Many say that 2 subs is superior, smoother, but perhaps this is to quick to conclude.
When going down so deep I suppose that the sound is no more directional, that it is more all about to have subs that melt into the rest of the higher frequencies and to alleviate sommes of the lower frequencies from the medium/low. In case I do not buy a wiim, everything will get much more expensive and also complicated for a beginner. At least this is what I have understood.
If I get into a separate DSP and streamer I think that for a beginner of digital sound, it is not easy but on the same time I will probably learn more

 

[Ultrasonic]

Many say that 2 subs is superior, smoother, but perhaps this is to quick to conclude.

Multiple subs can help to smooth out the bass response, especially across multiple listening positions. To do this optimally you want to send the same mono bass signal to both subs (summing left and right channels) and to have spent time finding positions in your room where the summed output is smoother (so e.g. where you have a dip in the response from one sub you get a peak in the response from the other). Done wrong and you can find the outputs of the two subs cancel each other out at some frequencies and make the bass response less smooth though. As I said, it's not straightforward. One sub is significantly less complicated, especially as the Wiim has functionality to help optimise this (not that I've tried it).

Edit: with appropriate hardware you can also get into using software like MSO to help but that's another level of complexity too.

 

[RaymondFromThePyrénéés]

I read that starting out with a wiim ultra and evolve by adding a dsp to the wiim ultra later on is possible, so I an grow with the wiim ultra.

But what will a wiim ultra with a DSP give me that the wiîm ultra does not do alone ?

 

[antcollinet]

I read that starting out with a wiim ultra and evolve by adding a dsp to the wiim ultra later on is possible, so I an grow with the wiim ultra.

But what will a wiim ultra with a DSP give me that the wiîm ultra does not do alone ?

Not much but some. The Wiim as I understand it will give only frequency response corrections. More advanced DSP will aslo give timing/phase corrections. And if you go for someithing like Dirac or MultiEQ XT 32 - they are more sophistication still. Especially if yo go up to Bass Control, or even ART with Dirac. But then your DSP solution is going to cost multiple times what the Wiim Ultra does.

 

[thcdru2k]

WiiM Ultra by itself mainly shapes frequency response and handles basic 2.1 integration. It offers limited sub delay resolution and level trim, with fixed crossover behavior and no control over slope.

miniDSP gives you precise control over timing, phase, crossover type and slope, and how speakers and subs actually sum in the room.

If you are running a simple setup with zero to one subwoofer, WiiM alone is enough. If you want tighter integration or are using multiple subs, DSP makes a real audible difference.

Dirac or other advanced room correction can help automate what you would otherwise do manually, especially improving consistency across multiple seats.

 

[Mnyb]

There are theoretical advantages such as less crosstalk between channels and the opportunity to use shorter speaker wires . And completely independent power supplies so one channel are no way affected buy what’s going on in the other channel ?
But I rarely have any program material with exploding fighter jets in the R channel and butterflies on a meadow in the L channel it tends to go loud simultaneously and no one is driving their equipment close to its limits all the time .

That said it looks nice and I multichannel systems it can be a neat solution compared to some bulky overheating 7 ch amps , just put some more amps here and there .

Before I yet again went with active speakers I thought of getting small mono class D amps close to each speaker ,with my interior and current furniture that does not have space for a big stereo amp .

They’re are nice but I would not nitpick or loose sleep over some theoretical advantages compared.
The WiiM Ultra stuff is compelling, it’s not state of the art but good enough for almost any situation and a fair price perfectly balanced performance, sure the DAC or ADC could be improved a bit the power amp could be more powerful , but that would drive up prices quickly .

The WiiM ultra in preamp version is very good it gives you flexibility for bigger rooms and special speakers if you need more powerful amps . It lacks balanced out but that’s about it .

The typical apartment dweller with small speakers and a small room can probably don’t get any meaningful soundquality improvements over a WiiM setup.

 

[Mnyb]

Would not a stereo amp have crosstalk while two mono amps have none?

Yes but in practice not a worry , crosstalk measurement are often very good nowadays.

 

[antcollinet]

Yes but in practice not a worry , crosstalk measurement are often very good nowadays.

I've never seen anything in an amp that strays into the realm of audibility.

 

[Redacted]

Both only have a single subwoofer output so I'd stick to one. There are potential benefits from multiple subwoofers but it's harder to get things set up optimally.

Most powered subs have built-in crossover controls (often DSP) and volume - you can feed two of them just fine from the L&R pre-outs and have "stereo" subs, but any stereo effect is not going to be there if you run your subs for only very low frequencies or TV effects..

 

[Redacted]

Hands up anyone who can hear L<->R crosstalk at say -70dB in music signals or lack or "imaging".... Problem solved.

 

[boXem]

Getting the Wiim Ultra + the 3e A7 stereo is equivalent, nearly exactly

to getting the WUA all in one.

Since I already read such a statement several times, let's try to avoid this to become a mantra.
One of the 2 has an almost speaker independent frequency response, the other not. That the differences would not be audible would purely be a question of luck.

 

[boXem]

It is in general better to have short analogue interconnect between your source/preamp and power amp, and long speaker cables than the other way around. Analogue interconnect can pick up noise - speaker cables not so much.

It is an audiophile myth that short speaker cables are a benefit of Mono amps.

Wondering why the amplifiers were near the speakers while the mixing console was 20 meters away in almost every concert I have been ...

 

[Ropeburn]

Just in case anyone seriously wonders about crosstalk... just test it. Disconnect one channel on line level and the other one on speaker level. You'll hear nothing but the combined crosstalk of your chain. Then decide how much difference it makes... hehe

(Vinyl crosstalk is typically 20-30dB and nobody ever complained about that lol)

 

[Redacted]

Wondering why the amplifiers were near the speakers while the mixing console was 20 meters away in almost every concert I have been ...

Cost of all the copper. But you knew that.