Are MBL omnidirectional speakers worth the $$$?

[boxerfan88]

Another cool looking omni speaker
Is there any chance it's better than the MBLs?
View attachment 326721

I have heard these twice at HiFi shows late last year. They really do sound very good.

Unfortunately when I see them, it reminds me of ...

 

[Duke]

Interesting. I wouldn't even know what "clarity" means for pink noise. And I never thought my bipolars (back array at 0dB) degraded "clarity" on music.

I see that I communicated poorly, so let me try to clarify.

Music was used when assessing clarity. The listener held a remote that changed the SPL of the rear-firing drivers in 1 dB increments. Without looking at the reading on the remote, the listener would adjust the level of the rear-firing drivers while the level of the front-firing drivers remained unchanged. The idea was to find the level where clarity just began to be degraded.

Pink noise was then used to measure, at the listening position, the SPL of the front-firing drivers alone, and then the SPL of the rear-firing drivers alone. Obviously the rear-firing drivers had a much longer path length, in this instance roughly three time as long as the path length of the direct sound. So that "-12 dB" figure for the rear-firing drivers, measured at the listening position, includes the falloff with distance due to the reflection path length.

My expectation is that the ideal level setting for the rear-firing drivers varies somewhat with the specific room and setup conditions. And I'm not even certain that just below "where clarity just begins to be degraded" is necessarily the ideal setting, but it's probably a good starting point.

 

[GXAlan]

I’ve owned MMG and 3.5R. I have a very hard time describing them but in that listening room which was in a basement, carpeted/untreated, about 35 feet by 16 feet both times Maggies just never sounded “right” and even as dipoles the sound was in more of a flat plane, little image depth like everything was just “there” wall of sound-esque. Symphony music was a very far cry from the real thing. Contrast this against what I had come from, some $600/pair tower JBL speakers I bought when working at Best Buy that sounded rich, enveloping, and had nice depth when toed in about 20 degrees. I kept them at my parents house and after going through a half dozen speakers whenever I went back to listen to them I could never figure out why did they sound so good? Why were they better than all these audiophile speakers that got raves in fashionable waves that I was buying then dumping. Only after reading Toole’s first edition it made sense, they were just sensibly designed speakers, a small tweeter handing off to a small format midrange that went to a larger midrange/midbass followed by three 8” woofers. The directivity matching between the treble and midrange units was probably pretty good. It wasn’t trying to do goofy crap like Audio Note with a large tweeter w/o a waveguide to a massive midwoofer.

For what it's worth, I also have the JBL 708p and the Japanese-only JBL S/2600. I am a big fan of JBL/Revel as well. I currently run the Meyer Sound Amie's.

That said, just as headphones are a pleasant experience even though they don't present the image the same way as Dr. Toole's gold standard, the Magnepans are its own sound.

The Bose 901's wouldn't be for "keeping" but more as a reference to compare against. I honestly bought mine just to gain the experience, and ended up keeping it. Again, I have $12,000 worth of Meyer Sound Amie's yet I still have the Bose 901 as a setup that I genuinely enjoy *specifically* for recreating the experience of at the symphony.

Toole’s book is invaluable and it has taught me so much but the listening tests on directivity is entirely about tonality, which is very easy to agree with Toole's conclusions. With what @Erin's Audio Corner has posted on measurements and how they correlate with listening I have found myself nearly in exact agreement with him about my preference for at least medium (60 degrees) radiation pattern. The MBLs with the minor issue of not having a perfect treble response (should be easy to EQ given the radiation in that region is identical 360 degrees and no crossover/directivity issues that arise when typically EQ'ing in that region) are just another extreme of VERY wide directivity and their measurements along with what a friend who I have never disagreed with on sound quality is why I am interested in the 101. Hope that long ramble made sense!

It definitely makes sense. In no way am I suggesting that the 901's will compete with MBLs, but I do think it's worth listening to other non-traditional dispersion patterns. I just think that if you can find the 901's for a few hundred bucks, it'll really challenge your preconceived notions.

 

[Deleted member 2702]

This month, I listened to this setup:

It is one of my worst listening experiences ever. Maybe the worst non-DIY.

 

[rank]

Try to find Magnepan MG II or III A. And practice critical listening. With records you know.

 

[Pearljam5000]

This month, I listened to this setup:
View attachment 373758

It is one of my worst listening experiences ever. Maybe the worst non-DIY.

Why

 

[MattHooper]

This month, I listened to this setup:
View attachment 373758

It is one of my worst listening experiences ever. Maybe the worst non-DIY.

Interesting. I’ve heard those speakers sound pretty spectacular in a dedicated room. They are not easy to set up. And I actually prefer the smaller 101E MBLs.

What was so terrible about the sound?

 

[Deleted member 2702]

Why

Hollow sound, rumbling bass. It just sounded wrong. I was very surprised.

 

[Deleted member 2702]

Interesting. I’ve heard those speakers sound pretty spectacular in a dedicated room. They are not easy to set up. And I actually prefer the smaller 101E MBLs.

I have hard MBL before (I think it was the 116F): They were OK (but nothing special in either direction, in my point of view).

 

[Deleted member 2702]

Circa two months ago, I listened to the Dali Kore (price is approximately $100 000).
I was positively surprised: They played very well. I heard them in a shop. This photo is a customer's setup:

 

[MattHooper]

I have hard MBL before (I think it was the 116F): They were OK (but nothing special in either direction, in my point of view).

Fair enough. Taste is taste.

I think those MBLs when properly set up perform more like Jonathan Valin describes in his recent review (I've found him perceptive in describing traits I liked about my MBLs):

MBL 101 X-Treme MKII Loudspeaker - The Absolute Sound

MBL 101 X-Treme MKII Loudspeaker - Can you make what is already one of the world’s most thrilling, beautiful, and realistic sounding loudspeakers even more thrilling, beautiful, and realistic sounding? With the help of MBL’s designer Jürgen Reis, JV gives you the answer—and it is a resounding “Yes!”

www.theabsolutesound.com

Circa two months ago, I listened to the Dali Kore (price is approximately $100 000).

I spent quite a bit of time listening to the next speaker down from the Kore, the Epicore 11, which my friend reviewed. That still was a very big speaker. I thought they sounded terrific - really dynamic, big sound, really clean and effortless. (Though could not come close to what a good MBL set up can do in terms of sonic realism and imaging, IMO).

 

[Bjorn]

Hollow sound, rumbling bass. It just sounded wrong. I was very surprised.

Rumbling bass is likely primarily the room and resonances.
The experience of "hollow sound" could maybe be related to the myriads of reflections we get from an omni. This results in a very poor imaging where the vocal and instruments aren't solidly placed in the center anymore but sort of spread out everywhere instead. Especially the vocal voice in the center is normally much smaller with an omni.

 

[Westsounds]

This month, I listened to this setup:
View attachment 373758

It is one of my worst listening experiences ever. Maybe the worst non-DIY.

Plus they look absolutely elaborate and ridiculous, but beauty is subjective as well of course

 

[Deleted member 2702]

Rumbling bass is likely primarily the room and resonances.
The experience of "hollow sound" could maybe be related to the myriads of reflections we get from an omni. This results in a very poor imaging where the vocal and instruments aren't solidly placed in the center anymore but sort of spread out everywhere instead. Especially the vocal voice in the center is normally much smaller with an omni.

Yes, I think you are correct.

 

[mags65]

This month, I listened to this setup:
View attachment 373758

It is one of my worst listening experiences ever. Maybe the worst non-DIY.

Stereofil?

 

[MattHooper]

AAaaagh !

A killer, rare secondhand deal for my dream speakers!….

MBL 101E (70% OFF) Black Gloss, Trades OK For Sale | Audiogon

MBL 101e Full-Range for sale. HigherFi.com "The Worlds Largest Seller of Ultra High End Audio" A gloss black pair of MBL 101E speakers, tested and ...

www.audiogon.com

If only those showed up during one of my better work years, they would be mine now!!!

 

[dlaloum]

But when the audiophile’s friends have left the audiophile is left with sound being pumped around the room, unless the audiophile has Beolab 90s whereby at the flick of a switch they could revert to narrow beam.
Keith

Or the audiophile could opt for a design like the Quad ESL63/988/989 etc... where you get the benefit of both... sound around the room, and improved imaging through the delay line design to emulate a point source...

 

[dlaloum]

Way back when most frats had a couple of the big Cerwin Vegas for parties. It seemed the de facto goto for those days. There was the one with a pair of old K-horns in the corner of a wide open basement dance floor to the frat house. Talk about getting loud if needed. Proper corner placement and powered by some medium power Marantz receiver.

I helped a Uni Ballroom dance club get equipped with a pair of used Klipsch Forte's (a lifetime ago...) .... plenty loud enough for parties, while being relatively portable... and robust enough.