Are inter-sample overs the new audiophile bogeyman?

[antcollinet]

If you can’t hear a difference between 0dB and -4dB, that doesn’t mean that your equipment won’t produce inter-sample overs.

I recognise that - but my point wasn't that my kit doesn't produce them - my point was - whether it does or not - I've never heard anything that I think *can* be ISO in real-world listening. Hence my question:

Has anyone else? If so, with what music (including what master) at what time?

So far, as far as I've seen, only one person has stated they heard them noticeably from listening to music - but that was a device with overflow/wraparound errors. One other has said they can hear them when listening for them - but even then, difficult to detect.

A few others have stated conditions under which they believe they will be audible - without specifically stating that they have heard them.

So my conclusion - at least from the posts here - is that they are not a real world issue as far as audibility is concerned.

However, I accept @Sokel's point, that if we are chasing general noise and distortion below levels of (say) -80dB, and deciding not to recommend DACs that don't achieve -100dB, and dumping them in the orange section of the chart - then it makes no sense to ignore ISOs.

 

[threni]

I guess a lot of people here do eq pre-dac and will either not hear them or during eq experimentation will hear general clipping and reduce the gain.

 

[Mnyb]

I guess a lot of people here do eq pre-dac and will either not hear them or during eq experimentation will hear general clipping and reduce the gain.

Yes many applikations also offers functions to prevent clipping and even sugests a pre gain to be set in a menu you can set negative 3db or something , thats before even sending the music to any DAC or speaker . In case of my actives if the software is sound ( pun ) ISO could possible happen at 100% volume but then you get other problems ... like deafness and a fire ...

So a digital volume saves the day .

Also for the general non audiophile public who uses volume normalised app's for spotify and cast to a small bluetooth speaker that certainly has digital volume , they never se any ISO ever .

An audiophile insisting on "bit perfect" as a desirable feature ( it's not ) may actually get them

 

[OHtaru]

An audiophile insisting on "bit perfect" as a desirable feature ( it's not ) may actually get them

And retro CD player lovers.

 

[OHtaru]

Also for the general non audiophile public who uses volume normalised app's for spotify and cast to a small bluetooth speaker that certainly has digital volume , they never se any ISO ever .

However, devices using absolute volume may have issues. When absolute volume is enabled, the Bluetooth audio stream is always transmitted at full-scale, and the volume is a command (0-127) to control the internal volume of the Bluetooth device. As I mentioned earlier, lossy compression can produce samples greater than 0dB, and a well-designed decoder should decode lossy audio into 32bit-float PCM. But many decoders decode lossy audio into 16bit int, which can cause clipping.

But your premise is Spotify. After loudness normalization, there are generally no issues because the volume has already been reduced. What needs to be cautious about are apps without loudness normalization.

 

[sonitus mirus]

Reading through all of this makes me appreciate the ADI-2/4 PRO SE even more, since it actually shows when sample peaks or true peaks hit the ceiling. It’s not that ISOs matter much in real listening, but it does show that RME understands how to measure this stuff properly and builds the headroom to handle it. It feels more like a sign of solid engineering than something that has any real impact on music.