• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Are DIY speakers 'worth it'?

NewbieAudiophileExpert

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2022
Messages
306
Likes
135
So i've been really keen about this whole audiophile thing for a couple of months now and have explored many different facets of it, from reference headphones to 5.1.2 HT setups, tower speakers, rasp pi streamres, DACS, etc.

One thing that i was looking into was designing my own speaker and assembling it, and then i took the time to look at the logistics of doing that vs just purchasing a pair of decent (used) 'like new' speakers and it just doesn't seem to be 'worth it'.

For example, my fronts are the Wharfedale Crystal 4.3s, which are 3 way speakers that can reproduce music spectacularly down to 50hz with help of my Yamaha AVR's pure direct mode - when broken down into parts the 3 drivers in each speaker would retail for about $175 AUD at minimum, crossover and plugs for $50-60 AUD, enclosure can be anywhere from $100 dollars to $400 already built.

These speakers were purchased in a like new condition for $500AUD, where as these retail for $1100AUD brand new - whilst at minimum the parts would cost $250 for each tower and more realistically $350-400 AUD.

Another example is these Edifier passive speakers called P17s, which i'd purchased for $65AUD brand new on sale from edifier.com (they usually retail for $120) - I initially thought, "these can't be that good, perhaps i should 'upgrade' the woofer since the enclosure is decent quality".

So, I started opening the speaker and once took the driver out and saw the woofer's back end/magnet, reality set in hard, the reality that a 4-inch woofer alone that's as big as this one would probably cost over $50 dollars to purchase from an online supplier, let alone the tweeter and crossover.

FYI the speakers are actually rather good and can produce enough bass to cause a rumble - nothing like the dedicated sub of a 2.1 system such as a logitech z603, but this is even better, since it doesn't over power anything.

Anyway, what is everybody else' opinion on the matter of DIY speakers? Worth it or nah? Any websites or brands that could be suggested for me to consider when it comes to 'DIY kits'?
 
D

Deleted member 46664

Guest
I've occasionally built speakers from scratch and I find it very rewarding when something that started out as a box of parts and some sheets of MDF comes to life and actually works. The same with amplifiers and pre-amps, btw. The moment of success is quite the thrill.

I don't know that you can put a dollar value on that.

But ... I would suggest that if you're going to DIY some speakers, you should start from a bright idea and bring it to reality from scratch. Kits are good if you can't to the woodworking for some reason, but the results are usually a compromise at best. Plus, it's probably true that without all the production compromises, a careful DIY builder can produce a better outcome.

There is some software you'll probably find handy...
Room EQ Wizard ... for testing and comparing
Win ISD ... for cabinet design help
XSim ... for crossover design help
(all free)

These will let you measure your current system and work out prototype designs without wasting a lot of expensive wood.
Of course there are literally hundreds of books and tutorials you can read to get yourself on the right path.

Bottom line ... go for it!
 

changer

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Dec 4, 2020
Messages
557
Likes
601
I would make this dependent on a couple of factors.

1) Do you have other things to care about?
Because learning what you want and understanding the tools will take a great deal of time. If your personal life is all set, your job doesn’t offer anything new in the foreseeable future, that is good; if you should care about getting somewhere, maybe don’t loose time on DiY.

2) Do you have some financial leeway? If you find a recipe for high performance, you will probably safe money compared to the industry prices, which comes to no surprise, because of the silly industry, and also because you don’t make a mark up on your own labor costs. But your expenses will not be small. You might buy things twice, when you decide you want another driver, later in the process, or switch from passive to active, and and and. Anyway, you might be disappointed to miss your goal to get good cheaply.

3) Do you have a plan for the wood work? For example, I learned a fair deal of wood working in school, but I am still not a carpenter. But I am picky when it comes to surfaces, I want a very decent looking result. I know how much mistakes can be made when working with wood, and I know my experience and skills are limited. Sounds like work, to get it right. In my neighborhood there is an open wood workshop (it still costs), i am very lucky, because in my apartment, I can definitely not do it. But some things are still very complex, so I will probably get them done on a CNC machine. And thinking about that, why shouldn’t I get all the wood cut?
Would you pay a carpenter to cut you the enclosure pieces? Costs! You have the option to make a minimal enclosure with no finesse, from MDF and paint it, yes. But getting a fine surface is not trivial either. You’d need room with little dust, and paint and sand it a couple of times. By the way: paint costs!

4) Have you checked for a financially reachable, high rated speaker, used? With some patience you can get nice Genelecs for a good price used, a price that is hard to beat when you will do everything yourself. The sound is brilliant, you can listen to the music immediately and still read about the green grass on the other side until eventually you find the next best cheaper used that is affordable. Or even give up on this issue, when it is a non issue because the performance is so nice with a sub that you are satisfied and just want to listen to your music. My music listening became a bit douchy throughout building. Before, it was a social activity, we where hanging and showing us the best we knew. But now I use songs to listen to performance.

I am so happy when I am done. I will invite friends and we will listen to music on a conversational level, if they ask for music, where dynamics are a joke and the finesse is only a faint idea. And I will not point them to the speakers. And I will enjoy this more than the solitary days spend in doubt if this or that setting of the DSP actually is right. It’s at least half a year to go, and I began, uh, I will not tell.

5) Can you compromise?
If there is a recipe you like and good plans and you don’t care about the perfect outcome and there is some money available to help get things advanced quickly, the conditions might be just right.
 

bluefuzz

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 17, 2020
Messages
1,043
Likes
1,774
what is everybody else' opinion on the matter of DIY speakers? Worth it or nah?
It depends on how you calculate 'worth'. In pure monetary cost it is quite feasible to DIY a good quality speaker for less than what a comparable speaker would cost from a shop. However, that is only if you don't factor in your time as 'cost'. Especially finishing traditional box speakers is immensely time consuming and challenging for the average DIY'er. You must seriously enjoy building stuff and have a realistic sense of your own skills. You will want to build a couple of popular kits before trying to design your own. Even a flat-pack kit can be challenging for some if they don't have the tools or experience. You can never have enough clamps ... ;-)

That said, I'm an inveterate DIY'er and have built hifi speakers, subwoofers, amps, streaming sources and cables, not to mention acoustic and electric guitars, guitar pedals, guitar amps, microphones, spring-reverbs and goodness knows what else. I enjoy the process, but from a financial perpective my DIY stuff has almost certainly not been 'worth it'. But it sounds (for the most part) great and is of course completely unique.

The greatest value in DIYing hifi speakers is when you can built something that simply doesn't exist commercially like for example Siegfried Linwitz' LXmini or LX521 (although they are now available commercially).
Any websites or brands that could be suggested for me to consider when it comes to 'DIY kits'?
Check out Troels Gravesens site for a good selection of builds of all sizes, skill levels and price ranges. He also has lots of tips and tricks on design issues and challenges.
 

No. 5

Active Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2019
Messages
144
Likes
121
Anyway, what is everybody else' opinion on the matter of DIY speakers? Worth it or nah?

It depends on what your priorities are and what you ultimately want. Resale value is important for some people, others want a good value for their money, and still others the best sound they can afford, some just want a good set of speakers and nothing else. For some priorities, DIY cannot compete, but for others it excels. As someone who is very pro-DIY, if all you want is a good set of speakers, give serious consideration to the used market. I have purchased excellent speakers for far, far, less than what they would have cost new.

There's a lot of satisfaction in building something yourself, and I think kits can represent a good value, but in my opinion, where DIY truly excels is from scratch design. However, for the results to be any good, it requires dedicating a large amount of time, effort, and money to the process. And not just in shop time, tools, and materials: most of it goes into learning and experimenting. You have to get into it either because you enjoy it, or you accept that your first couple attempts may not be very good in one way or another.

But if you have made that dedication, DIY allows the freedom to get what you want for sound quality and looks: you can trade bass extension for sensitivity if you're using subs, you can design whatever particular dispersion pattern is beneficial for your space or that appeals to you, you can get the sound you want since you are "tuning" it yourself (my advice here would be to first learn how to preform a reasonably reliable comparison test so that you are not chasing your tail), you can go fully active with simple analog crossovers or incredibly powerful DSP, and your speaker's style and color can be designed to blend in with your décor (or even disappear). You are only limited by your ability and budget.

If you want get into the from scratch DIY stuff, I recommend starting by learning about good design goals, both acoustic and psychoacoustic. Floyd Toole's book or any of his (free) papers online are a very accessible way to start, Earl Geddes' work is another excellent resource. There are a lot of books and websites where you can learn other parts of the design, but I think the thing that helped me the most was taking cheap used speakers and designing new crossovers for them. It cost me way less than a kit, and I learned a ton about the design process, how to listen, how to measure a speaker, and how how what I measure and what I hear correlate.
 

Jdunk54nl

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Aug 5, 2020
Messages
968
Likes
1,048
Location
Arizona
I like https://linkwitzlab.com/
DIY active speaker systems are not so common.
If I was going to design some speakers, I would build them active 1000000%. That way you can easily fine-tune the crossover of each individual driver. You just can't do that with a passive system to make it worth it.

You could easily design some based on this board (I have a friend running his linkwitz 521.4's on this)


or a bunch of eval boards that would work depending on your input/output needs

Or you. could pick up a couple of these for each speaker to do a 2/3 way
I use one of those^^ for my 2 speakers with passive crossovers (C-notes, the ones in my picture)

Then a 2 way or 3 way. If 2 way you could even use a minidsp 2x4hd too.
 

DVDdoug

Major Contributor
Joined
May 27, 2021
Messages
2,920
Likes
3,835
At the high-end you probably can't build something as good as you can buy. At the mid and low-end you can build something better or more economical than you can buy. But a high-quality DIY veneer finish can be expensive and time consuming. And if you "value your time" it's not worth it. On the other hand, if you enjoy woodworking or DYI in general, that labor is a bonus!

Also, if you don't already have tools you have to figure-in that expense. I built a few speakers with a circular saw and a jig saw, but now I have a table saw, some hole-saws, and a router with a jig for cutting larger circles.

I've re-built may main speakers three times with the same drivers... I bought the speakers (drivers) as a set long ago and I built the manufacturer's recommended design. But the bass was a little wimpy (12-inch woofer in a sealed box) so later I made a bigger box. The latest (3rd) design "mates" on top of a pair of home-built-subs. The drivers for the main speakers are so old (but still in "perfect" condition) that I don't have the Thiele-Small parameters, and I don't have the tools to measure them so the box is still sealed. Plus the subs (ported) handle the "serious bass". I didn't build my surround speakers. Those were "donated" by someone who was upgrading, so they don't match.

Most modern speakers are "small", optimized for multiple small home-theater speakers to be used with a subwoofer. But, "bigger is better" :p and it doesn't cost much more to make a bigger cabinet. ...OK bigger isn't always better but commercial speakers are often size-compromised. Speaker design involves a lot of compromise already so it's better if you don't have to compromise (or over-compromise) on size.

As far as finish, I "cheat" and I wrap them with vinyl upholstery material (like you see on guitar speakers/amplifiers). Normally, I use brown leather-look but I once used white with black grill cloth and on other speakers I've used some more "exotic" colors. It's super-easy, inexpensive, and IMO it looks OK in my living room.

For the subs I used WinISD (along with the Thiele-Small parameters) to optimize the cabined & port size. I never measured the results but they sound OK and they vibrate the walls & floor when I turn it up!!! (15-inch woofers in boxes that are about 3-feet tall.)



...In the past I built some audio electronics, but now, stuff is so good and so inexpensive it's usually more economical to buy. I still sometimes build electronics projects but only if I want something unique that I can't buy. A few years ago I built a pair of 8-foot tall "VU meters" for my living room. It's just like a regular LED VU meter with 24 LEDs on each side, but the LEDs are spaced 3 or 4 inches apart and It's just an effect... It's not in any way useful as a meter because it self-calibrates to the volume for lots of "meter action", no matter the volume.
 

Jdunk54nl

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Aug 5, 2020
Messages
968
Likes
1,048
Location
Arizona
I "cheated" too on my subs and wrapped them in white vinyl. I took it as an opportunity to learn to industrial sew.
Sewing Machine.JPG


Stitch Pattern.JPG


But they do look good in our living room.
IMG_3567.JPG



Full build log here: https://www.avsforum.com/threads/dual-stereo-integrity-ht18-v3-build.3241239/unread

also build log for the c-notes: https://www.avsforum.com/threads/parts-express-c-note-speaker-build.3241278/unread
 

bluefuzz

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 17, 2020
Messages
1,043
Likes
1,774
At the high-end you probably can't build something as good as you can buy.
I would question that if we're exclusively talking audio quality. I'm quite sure you can DIY a speaker that in audio performance can equal or surpass anything available on the commercial market - at any cost - at a fraction of the financial cost. Fit and finish is another matter.
 

ta240

Major Contributor
Joined
Nov 7, 2019
Messages
1,359
Likes
2,656
Worth it or nah?

Worth it purely for costs savings? Probably not. I'm sure there are some higher end builds where it can make sense but it is really hard to compete with mass production in the $1500 and under range. Especially in the sub $500 range. The often claimed theory that the retail markup of speakers is so high and you can save that by building your own forgets that the components are sold at retail. Sure some of the big companies spend a bundle on marketing but they also buy in huge numbers to get their components at a fraction of what you'd pay. It seems like in the $1000+ for components range that if you have the equipment and skill to make the cabinets and you follow a well proven design you can likely end up with something impressive. Designing one from scratch yourself is an entirely different game compared to proven, tested and even measured DIY designs that have been through dozens or even hundreds of builds.

If you aren't a known, quality builder then resale value is usually just the used price of the components.

The only way DIY really makes sense is if you enjoy it
 

maverickronin

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jul 19, 2018
Messages
2,527
Likes
3,308
Location
Midwest, USA
Whether something is "worth it" or not really depends on your free time to income ratio but IMO DIY really shines when you set out to make something that is not commonly available commercially.

If building speakers won't become a hobby in and of itself for you then it might not make much sense to try and duplicate the sort of active monitors, slim bookshelves, or tower speakers that the market is already overflowing with. If you want something more unusual, like a giant tower with 15" woofers and compression drivers, a specific shape, dimensions, finish, or other feature then DIY is a good way to go for someone who is reasonably handy but doesn't intend to make speaker building a continuous hobby.
 
Last edited:

alex-z

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Feb 19, 2021
Messages
910
Likes
1,685
Location
Canada
There are two types of DIY.

The pre-fab kit category can easily undercut even budget speakers. The Hitmaker's designed by Paul Carmody are a prime example, I would compare them against a pair of Elac DBR62 which cost twice as much.

The fully custom category is not cheap. You need tools like a tablesaw, router, and measurement mic. So you are already $500 deep before you build a single speaker. You need to design several good speakers for this option to make sense, and the skills to do that aren't something you pick up in a single weekend.
 

bloomdido

Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2022
Messages
45
Likes
25
I'd say right now with active bi/triamped speakers it's totally worth it when you know what you want and where to look. Built a pair of three-way active speakers using Hypex FusionAmp with open baffle mids, horn tweeters and closed cabinet lows which can do 20Hz-20KHz +/- 2db at quite good volume and with quite transparent sound and I doubt one can get a pair of factory built active speakers with comparable specs for the cost of components I used (~$2000 or so). But this will only work for you if you're really able to have fun building speakers - it doesn't require a lot of skill but still some effort and time are definitely required and some knowledge (a couple of videos or books referenced on this forum) would also be needed. If you have that type of motivation tri-amped active speakers with digital crossovers are the way to go, totally worth it, but I guess with that motivation one has/is already building some. What a good time to be a DIY audiophile it is.
 

bloomdido

Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2022
Messages
45
Likes
25
The fully custom category is not cheap. You need tools like a tablesaw, router, and measurement mic. So you are already $500 deep before you build a single speaker.
IDK about other places but here in Moscow you can come to a place selling plywood/MDF and they will cut it according to your blueprint on a tablesaw and you can also rent a measurement mic etc.

You need to design several good speakers for this option to make sense, and the skills to do that aren't something you pick up in a single weekend.
I'd say one would need to watch a couple of long Youtube videos to understand what one should get from a well tuned digital crossover and is there really any reason now to DIY passive speakers anyway (well, except for fun but then it is always worth it if one is able to have such fun)? And the science saying the speakers should be sturdy enough and not very resonant is not very complicated
 

AwesomeSauce2015

Active Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2022
Messages
198
Likes
189
One other thing about DIY is that not only can you build speakers to exactly your needs, but that you can experiment with different designs.
Like for example, right now I'm working on a DIY Unity horn design, and many other people have built DIY unity horns themselves as well. This design of speaker is really only available in PA form from Danley Sound Labs, and costs a fortune. (Although they now have the Hyperion, which is still wayyy too expensive and large for me).
With DIY, I can use less expensive parts, fewer drivers, etc, to tailor this design to my needs, but also, I can actually have a unity horn. Nobody makes unity horns that fill my requirements, so I have to do DIY if I ever want them.
 

Rick Sykora

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 14, 2020
Messages
3,522
Likes
7,041
Location
Stow, Ohio USA
Value can be had in DIY speakers, but not for most people unless they find a good deal on a kit and a cabinet. If you build a known tested and measured design (such as the ones here on ASR), you can pretty much validate the result with a UMIK or other decent USB microphone.

The other opps for a better ROI in DIY are larger speakers and specialized designs (Open baffle, CBT or active/hybrid designs, etc.). The larger the speaker gets, the more costly it is to store and ship them. Along with these costs, there is a tendency for manufacturers to demand better margins. For some, this is how they help offset the more mediocre margins for smaller or medium size speakers. If you are a woodworker or are good fabricator and you want larger speakers, there is more opportunity to build better than you can buy.

As I also mentioned, there are some speakers that may be excellent but are simply so specialized that they are unlikely to be profitable for the general speaker market (Open baffle ala Linkwitz and others are probably the best examples). Also, if you want larger active speakers, there are few choices. The simplest example of these are large subwoofers which are both expensive to ship and have limited market appeal.

So, the question of DIY value cannot be readily generalized IMO. It really depends on your workmanship skills and costs to buy parts locally (vs purchasing locally). Even as we work on Directiva projects, we find significantly different driver costs and availability between major regions (like Europe and US).

Before you eliminate DIY as a possibility, it really depends on understanding what you want and whether it already exists at a price you are willing to pay (both for DIY and for finished speakers). :)
 
Last edited:

ctakim

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
148
Likes
195
Location
Menlo Park, CA
Part of my journey was to build the CSS P215 DIY speaker kit to help me understand better speakers and sound quality. They use high quality drivers and I got the upgraded cross overs. I've not yet finished the MDF cabinets, so they are not much to look at but I do like the sound!!! And it was a fun project!
 

Rednaxela

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 30, 2022
Messages
2,055
Likes
2,676
Location
NL
The absence of commercial pressure can be very liberating, but more often than not it is also the main reason for suboptimal results.

My own very few DIY attemps have all been dreamt up rubbish drowned in lazy execution. When it comes to quality in the more objective sense, when you expect to get there just by eye, by ear, or by chance, it‘s not gonna happen and not gonna be worth it. In that case, kits may be a better option as at least there was some commercial incentive to come up with something sensible. Still no guarantee though.

On the other hand, having fun is priceless. So if you enjoy it, it is worth it by definition.
 

iMickey503

Senior Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Jul 19, 2021
Messages
405
Likes
659
Location
United States PDX
I would say if your building speakers like Joppe? (DIY Flat panel speakers? ) WORTH IT!

Joppe Peelen is like the KING of DIY flat panel speakers. The guy's been making his own speakers from SCRATCH. Were talking his own CNC, his own Ribbons, planners, crossovers,film, you name it.

Do it if you want something that no one else can offer you. Whatever that may be.

Using Cost/Value metric is a detriment when you are looking for something that provides fulfillment. And that's what Audio is in a sense.

A simpler way to understand the DIY speaker perceptive:


--------DIY KIT Speaker------------Custom one off you built from scratch---------STORE BOUGHT------
8gBmDEiVvyhC2Eynxh4xvMfVstQjQQt7m_5sAL4WNFE.jpg


Same goes for building an electric car. Your own PF-Sense router. A custom PC. Etc.
In each case, if there is a turn key item that is already there for you? Why bother.


Car Audio is where this facet really comes into play. You just can't buy a solution that works. Everything has to be custom and a one off. Here you have no choice but to either accept compromises, or chase that Audio Cherry.

The same applies for custom restomod car builds with modern amenities, performance & creature comforts.
Having a shop do it in that case can cost you over $100,000. Or just $5,000 if you do it in your garage. But the time you take to do it on the weekends may take you 20 years to complete as is so often the case.

And in actuality? DIY costs more in my experience. You just get carried away with custom parts etc. if we're talking about speakers, it's not the drivers themselves that are expensive. it's the tools and the tooling that you need in order to put the project together that nickel and dimes you to death.

unless you can get the box shipped to you flat-pack and have it already drilled out and ready to just drop the drivers in and glue and screw? I don't see it as a great value for the average do-it-yourselfer.

it's different with electronics. Even the Cheapest Budget value Iron and some lead based solder can work to make some world class gear. I can't say the same for wood working.
try cutting 45's and making them aligned perfectly. Or butting them together without extensive sanding and rework. Let alone having perfect symmetry of the enclosure when your done.

And don't forget about Glue Runs. Lots of prep and sanding afterwards on my first attempts. And that was a Prefab sub woofer box. There is a reason why I bought 6 flat kits. Buy the 6th one, I nailed it perfect. But it took me a month to get there.


To date, I have scratch built 3 sub-woofer boxes. The last one took me about 6 months of planning. LOTS of Math. Box calculations, driver selection/availability. And fruitless emails & phone calls with a certain manufacture.

ALL to put it together, and end up with a box that uses so much Glue, you wonder if Elmer's stock price went up. Sometimes you get a bad joint, and you can never fix the leak. You just have to start all over again. Its not as easy as they make it look like when your cutting your own wood enclosures.
then you lie to yourself saying "oh it's Aperiodic membrane" It just makes this Wooshing sound.....

What I'm saying is? If you got the chops? Go for it. But the true Scratch built is not for the faint of heart.
Go with kit for the best value/Ease of construction.


Oh! I almost forget! because you thought it was a good idea to go with budget parts, now you have to deal with the added fun and bonus of trying to match those drivers and hopefully both of them actually measure and work the same. You can tell it did not go well for me.

you come up with problems like coil rub or one driver not working as good as the other or having a different sensitivity the list goes on and on. so purchase your drivers from a reputable source. And pray to the audio gods they don't get damaged in shipping.


And one day.. For no reason at all. Spending 5G's on a set of speakers seems like a Bargain. And I use to be that guy that thought if they were over $250 a pair, that was expensive. Not anymore! LOL!
 
Top Bottom