Are DIY speakers 'worth it'?

[Colonel7]

One of the difficulties with design-your-own DIY right now is crossover parts availability if you're trying passive. All-inclusive kits may be the way to go if it's a first time. I'm pondering going fully active because amp/dsp boards are available and I have a couple projects just sitting. Outside of crazy-priced "audiophile-grade" inductors and capacitors parts are hit and miss.

 

[NewbieAudiophileExpert]

One of the difficulties with design-your-own DIY right now is crossover parts availability if you're trying passive. All-inclusive kits may be the way to go if it's a first time. I'm pondering going fully active because amp/dsp boards are available and I have a couple projects just sitting. Outside of crazy-priced "audiophile-grade" inductors and capacitors parts are hit and miss.

Hmmm, do you know of any 3-way amps with dsp that can handle the tweeter, mid, and woofer? The best that i've seen is plate ams with 2.1 channels.

 

[maverickronin]

Hmmm, do you know of any 3-way amps with dsp that can handle the tweeter, mid, and woofer? The best that i've seen is plate ams with 2.1 channels.

Hypex has 3 way models.

 

[Colonel7]

Hmmm, do you know of any 3-way amps with dsp that can handle the tweeter, mid, and woofer? The best that i've seen is plate ams with 2.1 channels.

Definitely tradeoffs. Outlay for Hypex is high but the quality is there. With DIYers the 4-channel Shure JAB boards in Europe and the same ones branded Dayton KABD in the US and sold through Parts Express are popular and less expensive. They have amplification and ADAU 1701 DSP chip and use Sigma Studio for DSP but they have fair to lousy SINAD. I'm still mulling using them though even if its temporary. Thoughts from @Weeb Labs ?

 

[mcw]

What about using a current speaker you want to upgrade by replacing the cross-over / drivers?? I have a 30 year old
Nelson-Reed 804c with an excellent cabinet but its sound seems to be degrading at relatively hi SPL levels, don't know
why.

 

[bloomdido]

What about using a current speaker you want to upgrade by replacing the cross-over / drivers?? I have a 30 year old
Nelson-Reed 804c with an excellent cabinet but its sound seems to be degrading at relatively hi SPL levels, don't know
why.

If you're ready to go active with DSP+amp solutions some of which are mentioned above it can be very much worth it because driver matching becomes sooo much easier, you can basically buy any drivers that fit your cabinets and then just adjust the active crossover to get the frequency response you want. Yes you will still need to think about directivity but at least you can easily move crossover frequencies to avoid sharp directivity changes along the frequency scale.

I'd actually say the best way to try speaker DIY thing these days is to buy some used speakers for cheap (maybe some KEF Q series towers from mid 2000s or something like that) and upgrade them with DSP+amp solutions like FusionAmp. With some basic understanding of what is "good sound" one is pretty much guaranteed to get much better sound compared to one the speakers had initially and have a tremendous learning experience.

 

[Gorgonzola]

I've made only a couple of pairs plus a center channel DIY. Do I think DIY is worth while in terms of quality and cost? Heck yeah, especially versus mid-prices speakers and especially if you make your own cabinets.

One pair and the center I make were my own designs; both were designed using Harris Tech's X-Over Pro and BassBox Pro. (There are other, maybe better design tools available depending on your knowledge level). Both were satisfactory, however I've been most please with the pair based on Zaph Audio's ZRT, (Zaph Revelator Towers). The latter lead me to recommend designs from competent designers over DIY for most people; if you're in North America I recommend checking out Madisound Speaker Store for a nice selection of designs and their prescribed drivers and crossovers.

In fact I didn't make my own cabinets for the Zaph ZRT's but I bought knock-down cabinets from Parts Express, only because I don't have table saw. The speaker drivers and crossovers were from Madisound. I spend about US$1800 on the speakers, not cheap, but I'm convinced they are are comparable to commercially finished speakers costing at least 2X as much.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

I know a guy here in my country that is selling a 3 way accuton tower 8" woofer for the kef R7 price.. These accuton are interesting

 

[dualazmak]

In my multichannel multi-driver multi-way multi-amplifier stereo project, I have been sticking, and I am sticking, to "still-amazingly-wonderful" YAMAHA NS-1000's cabinet and drivers, but now all of the woofer Be-squawker and Be-tweeter are actively driven by dedicated amplifiers; furthermore, I added L&R heavy-large sub-woofers YAMAHA YST-SW1000 and L&R metal horn super tweeters FOSTEX T925A both driven by dedicated amplifier.

The total setup, therefore, can be now called/categorized as "quasi-DIY SP setup", I believe. (please find the latest system setup in my post here on the project thread. You may also find here and here Hyperlink Index for the project.)

Consequently, I would like to suggest another possible DIY path of speakers by first having well established HiFi (highly ranked/marked vintage or old or recent) passive 3-way or 2-way speaker, and you may DIY converted it (removing all the LC network in it!) into fully active system using DSP (XO/EQ) software plus multichannel DAC plus multiple amplifiers. If needed, you can also add sub-woofers and/or super-tweeters again to be driven by dedicated amplifiers.

At least in my case, this approach guided me to much success in achieving greatly improved total sound quality through the full digital XO/EQ, high quality multichannel DAC processing, proper selection of suitable amplifiers for the SP drivers (enjoyable long journey), flexible Fq response control, perfect (0.1 msec precision) time alignment between all the SP drivers, much improved SP transient characteristics (by complete elimination of LC network and direct/dedicated drive by amplifier), etc., etc.

Another nice feature of this approach is that you can keep the original passive system as your reference sound setup, like I did it all the way. At any point/stage of your progress, you may easily fully roll back the system into your original reference setup for intensive measurement and-or listening comparisons. Please do not change multiple factors at once, and please go forward step-by-step changing/improving only one factor in one step forward.

Keith of @Puite Audio kindly wrote here;
"You must hear equipment in your own room in your own system, compare unsighted if there isn’t an immediately apparent difference/improvement. To go further if there isn’t a significant improvement then don’t change anything, the largest gains are speakers and room. Keith"

Edit to add:
If you have nostalgia and preference for nice looking "genuine" large glass-face VU meters (IEC 60268-17 VU meter Standard/Specification), you may also add DIY multiple VU-meter array just like I did it recently as shared here.

 

[novice]

DIY at what level though?

Buying a commercial design has the advantage of being a "known" if you ever decide to sell them off. Selling off a kit or scratchbuild though means you're limited to those who acknowledge the kit or scratchbuild is "good" and agree that your building chops were acceptable. If you build a sorted kit design with measurements, recommended parts, and user satisfied reviews, a good result at a lower price than a commercial product is doable. If it's starting from scratch, selecting drivers, deciding on the alignment, then building a passive (or active) crossovers, etc. it will be a long, probably frustrating, and expensive road. So, whether or not any of the preceding is enjoyable will be totally dependent on the tool kit you start with... mentally, physically, and capability-wise. I've heard some stunning clean sheet of paper speakers as well as kit builds over the years and some total junk too.

$0.02...

 

[crazycloud]

DIY active speaker systems are not so common.

I've been building actives for 30y+ starting with my own analogue xovers and moving to DSP in the early 2000s. I've done a couple of passives during that time, but maybe 10% of my designs and only if there was a specific need for passive in that application.

 

[Astrozombie]

I was always hoping to try a DIYSoundgroup kit but they're never in stock, I guess I may end up checking out the CSS 1TD, though I'm not sure about them not having grilles.

 

[eddantes]

As a bargain -> NO! (If you want a bargain, buy 2nd hand hifi.)
As a superior product -> NO! (Your build tolerances will likely not meet QC of most MFGs of quality gear.)

As a personal growth exercise -> YES! You'll learn a lot. You will feel a sense of accomplishment and pride.

 

[Prana Ferox]

I was always hoping to try a DIYSoundgroup kit but they're never in stock, I guess I may end up checking out the CSS 1TD, though I'm not sure about them not having grilles.

DIYSG news isn't very easy to follow as it tends to be in random AVSForum threads but Erich announced he found a new crossover part supplier and will be returning several kits to stock.

If you have a specific kit you're looking for I'd recommend emailing him.

Grilles aren't that hard to add if you have 'get the Home Depot to cut it for you' levels of woodworking access.

 

[archerious]

I've made only a couple of pairs plus a center channel DIY. Do I think DIY is worth while in terms of quality and cost? Heck yeah, especially versus mid-prices speakers and especially if you make your own cabinets.

One pair and the center I make were my own designs; both were designed using Harris Tech's X-Over Pro and BassBox Pro. (There are other, maybe better design tools available depending on your knowledge level). Both were satisfactory, however I've been most please with the pair based on Zaph Audio's ZRT, (Zaph Revelator Towers). The latter lead me to recommend designs from competent designers over DIY for most people; if you're in North America I recommend checking out Madisound Speaker Store for a nice selection of designs and their prescribed drivers and crossovers.

In fact I didn't make my own cabinets for the Zaph ZRT's but I bought knock-down cabinets from Parts Express, only because I don't have table saw. The speaker drivers and crossovers were from Madisound. I spend about US$1800 on the speakers, not cheap, but I'm convinced they are are comparable to commercially finished speakers costing at least 2X as much.

They look just like Tekton speakers. Or rather Tekton speakers look just like DIY speakers.

 

[fpitas]

As a bargain -> NO! (If you want a bargain, buy 2nd hand hifi.)
As a superior product -> NO! (Your build tolerances will likely not meet QC of most MFGs of quality gear.)

As a personal growth exercise -> YES! You'll learn a lot. You will feel a sense of accomplishment and pride.

Exactly. It took me years to get to the point where I'm happy with the sound, and I'm an engineer. Crossovers and voicing are not for the faint of heart. If that's your idea of a good time, go for it. Otherwise, if you're still set on DIY, you'd better look at kits.

 

[Urubamba]

I'm reviving this thread from a few years ago.

I came across this thread several times and found it very interesting, but I didn't dare reply, perhaps because the opinions expressed here already clarify things quite a bit for beginners. But today I decided that I can contribute my experiences in just one aspect, the most important one: sound. Can the work of goldsmiths be compared to commercial products?

I started in the audio field many years ago; I was barely a teenager when I built my first tube radio. I built my first DIY speaker cabinet 50 years ago. A friend and I made two identical pairs, taking advantage of the fact that his father was a shipbuilder and we had access to woodworking machinery. We built some cabinets that were open-source designs from the local factory Ucoa; I live in Argentina. They were 3-way, with a midrange and tweeter in sealed enclosures and a 12-inch woofer in a 60-liter cabinet with a bass reflex port. Then I sold them and bought some Karlson tanks (how many liters are they in the original design? I don't remember, but probably around 100 liters) with 12-inch Leea extended range speakers (another local speaker brand), also DIY. Powered by a tube amplifier that I also built - a PP 6BQ5 - and a rather primitive turntable with a magnetic cartridge (Shure M44C), it was, for me, the best sound I had ever heard up to that point. And yes, at high SPLs, things got complicated due to feedback, but my parents let me use the living room freely, so I placed the speakers far away from the turntable, ruining the whole room's decor. But parents do these things and much more for their children when they love them... Anyway, this is a long story, and I don't want to write much more (I'm not fluent in English and I use Google Translate, so this contribution takes some work) and risk losing interest in how it ends... Even a small response from you would help me continue the story and finally give you my opinion about the thread title...

 

[dualazmak]

Hello @Urubamba,

I believe it would be quite nice and would be contributing excellently to better total sound quality if you would be ready to go into the PC-based, or Mac-based, DSP (digital signal processing) multichannel audio world!

You can find many threads and posts on this direction, including my thread dedicating to such PC-DSP-based DIY multichannel audio journey and exploration.

If you would be interested, please find the latest system setup of my PC-DSP-based multichannel multi-SP-driver multi-amplifier full-active stereo audio system in my posts #931, #1,009 and #1,022 on my project thread.

I do hope much successes in your new DIY audio journey towards better/optimized enjoyments in your audio music listening.

 

[Urubamba]

Hello dualazmak
Hey, why do you think I didn't get into DSP processing? Didn't you wait to see how things unfolded (and how time passed; I didn't get stuck in the past)?
I just turned off my current system, and a smile kept spreading across my face. That piano was right there in front of me! You can listen to the piece in the attachment, just as an example. You know (I assume) that you can't fully appreciate a musical work through a compressed stream like YouTube.

Yes, DSP is present in my sound setup, although not to the extent you're suggesting. Only in my DIY subwoofer setup are the ones in my avatar (there are two).
So, if you want to know why I made my decision and my opinion about the thread title, you'll have to wait, but I'll tell you now that it's not necessary—for me—for everything to be processed with DSP. The old ways still work, and a good quality analog crossover in the satellites—the main speakers—is just as good as a crossover using amplifiers/crossover networks with digital processing. I'd even say they detract rather than add, similar to what happens with analog signal processing versus zeros and ones ( CD players and streaming vs. turntables and vinilos ) . I use DSP where it really shines and is needed, depending on how the system reacts in a given room. In the subwoofer area.

Anyway, I appreciate your interest, although it's obvious you're trying to derail the discussion, "putting your own spin on things." You'll have to wait for the rest of the story. Stay tuned, and take care.

 

[dualazmak]

Of course, you can go your own way towards optimized and better total audio sound quality!
I have no intention at all of "derailing" your discussion; I just shared my own exploration responding to your message of "Even a small response from you would help me".

By the way, I have all the recordings of Glenn Gould including the above Goldberg Variations. I once visited his grave in Toronto with roses.
As you may agree with me, I have been so far long-year inclining/sticking to Glenn Gould's first and final recordings of "Goldberg Variations".

As I shared here #803, however, have you heard Kimiko Ishizaka's "The Open Goldberg Variations (J.S. Bach BWV 988)" project, Open Archive direct download.
you can watch/hear it on YouTube; really stunning performance and amazing recording quality.
Download of the original tracks from her site is highly recommended.

I am/was deeply impressed by the style/understandings of her performance as well as by the super-excellent recording quality.

It would be highly possible this new recording of "Goldberg Variations" by Kimiko Ishizaka would surpass Gould's two recordings and will become top of my preference over so many Bach-Goldberg albums by many pianists I already have in my music library.