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Are DCA Noires that hard to drive ?

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Hello,

I'm on the hunt for a better set of headphones than my Beyer DT250 and I'm really interested by the Dan Clark Audio Noire.

That said, I keep reading that they can be a challenge to drive them properly.

My main use would be connected to my integrated amp (A Moon 220i, so I assume it would not be a problem), sometimes my desktop (a 2020 MacBook Pro) and my iPhone 13.

Would I really need an external DAC/AMP to drive them, which could be a break dealer for me as I would not really like to fuss with that on a regular basis ?

I would also be tempted by the price equivalent, the Focal Celestee, but the critics - here and elsewhere - are not that great it seems.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks !
 

Snoopy

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I would highly recommend a headphone amp.
 

Thespeech

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I've owned a pair of the Aeon Noire for a month now and I'm pretty happy with it. I use a Topping NX7 connected to a BC3 to drive it (the NX7 outputs up to 1200mW at 16 ohms, while the Noire is 13 ohm). Technically on the lowest gain for the NX7 (-13.8dB, I don't know how that translates to wattage), if I max it out it seems loud enough. But you also have to take into account the transients which may spike to much higher than your typical listening volume. I remember reading somewhere that Dan Clark posted that this requires about 600mw to drive "properly". Personally I run it on the highest gain setting (+13.9dB) with 50% on the knob.
 

tifune

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Hello,

I'm on the hunt for a better set of headphones than my Beyer DT250 and I'm really interested by the Dan Clark Audio Noire.

That said, I keep reading that they can be a challenge to drive them properly.

My main use would be connected to my integrated amp (A Moon 220i, so I assume it would not be a problem), sometimes my desktop (a 2020 MacBook Pro) and my iPhone 13.

Would I really need an external DAC/AMP to drive them, which could be a break dealer for me as I would not really like to fuss with that on a regular basis ?

I would also be tempted by the price equivalent, the Focal Celestee, but the critics - here and elsewhere - are not that great it seems.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks !

IMO, no they are not hard to drive. However, mobile devices tend to be current limited below 32 ohm and manufacturers have a tendency to omit that on the datasheet. I sound like a broken record at this point, but I recommend Qudelix 5K as starting point every single time and then augment with something like NX7 ('low' end) or Ampersand (for the Stealth/Susvara users out there) if you feel you need it.

I modified Qudelix's Sundara calculator at link below to match Noire, and it came back with 120dB on balanced out, high power mode. So, I think you'd be OK.

 
OP
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Thanks for the replies !

Would something like the FIIO Q3 be another option for the iPhone and MacBook ?

Any thoughts about the Celestee for those who have tried both ? They both seem fine models in terms of frequency response, with one having more dynamics (Focal) and the other having more soundstage (DCA).
 

tifune

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Thanks for the replies !

Would something like the FIIO Q3 be another option for the iPhone and MacBook ?

Any thoughts about the Celestee for those who have tried both ? They both seem fine models in terms of frequency response, with one having more dynamics (Focal) and the other having more soundstage (DCA).

Well, anything is "an option.". You have to clarify, what is it about the Q3 draws your attention that other solutions don't have?

The only Focal I ever liked is Utopia, which is in another stratosphere price-wise. Never heard Celeste but I have to assume Stellia is supposed to be "better" and I hated it. YMMV may vary in that regard, with headphones there are often trade-offs besides sound quality one may not be anticipating. I really liked the LCD-2C, for example, but I can't stand wearing 1/2 a bowling ball on my head so it was a non-starter.
 
OP
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Hello Tifune,

In the best of worlds, I would avoid those other things to add. I will certainly read about the 5K as it seems smaller than other options.

As for the NX7, I know Topping is another good option for the price. I think availability in Canada might be more of a challenge ?

As for the FIIO, I seem to like the fact that it has a DAC+power+battery+all the cables needed for connections with Apple devices. But I don't know a lot about those kind of those solutions in general.

As for Focal, thanks a lot for the feedbback. I tend more to the DCA myself, but was thinking it was maybe more convenient with the Focal's.

Best wishes,

Well, anything is "an option.". You have to clarify, what is it about the Q3 draws your attention that other solutions don't have?

The only Focal I ever liked is Utopia, which is in another stratosphere price-wise. Never heard Celeste but I have to assume Stellia is supposed to be "better" and I hated it. YMMV may vary in that regard, with headphones there are often trade-offs besides sound quality one may not be anticipating. I really liked the LCD-2C, for example, but I can't stand wearing 1/2 a bowling ball on my head so it was a non-starter.
 
Last edited:

zenmastering

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I have a set of DC Aeon2-closed (supposedly, the Noire with a different earpad) and I can easily drive it from an LG V60 phone and a FiiO M11 (unbalanced 3.5mm). I don't listen any louder than ~87-92dB SPL, so take that into account.
 
OP
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I have a set of DC Aeon2-closed (supposedly, the Noire with a different earpad) and I can easily drive it from an LG V60 phone and a FiiO M11 (unbalanced 3.5mm). I don't listen any louder than ~87-92dB SPL, so take that into account.
Maybe the best solution for me at this point would be to buy them and see if I need more power. I assume I will discover quite quickly where the need is.

For example, I would not use them to take a walk. It is for interior use only, direct in the main amp most of the time, sometimes with the laptop and the phone.

Best wishes,
 

Thespeech

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I would also think you should look at the power calculator here with the Noire's stats (92dB/1mW, 13 ohms)

You'll see that there is a sharp ramp starting from 115 dB (200 mW) to 120 dB (631 mW), and then you need another 400mW for a likely imperceptible 2dB increase from there (1000 mW). As said previously, of course you don't (or shouldn't) ever listen to music that loud consistently, but transients from snares and other such instruments may reach that volume.

So you rapidly hit a point of diminishing returns with amplifiers. It is likely that the 200 mW to 700mW range is the sweet spot for "maximum" performance with peace of mind, but also it's not like the headphone won't put out sound below that.
 

OakParkMusicGuy

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I have the Aeon X open & closed and Aeon 2 closed.
I don’t find them difficult to drive. They work just fine with my iPhone & iPad. Plenty of volume. I find my Hifiman and AKG much harder to drive.
 
OP
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IMO, no they are not hard to drive. However, mobile devices tend to be current limited below 32 ohm and manufacturers have a tendency to omit that on the datasheet. I sound like a broken record at this point, but I recommend Qudelix 5K as starting point every single time and then augment with something like NX7 ('low' end) or Ampersand (for the Stealth/Susvara users out there) if you feel you need it.

I modified Qudelix's Sundara calculator at link below to match Noire, and it came back with 120dB on balanced out, high power mode. So, I think you'd be OK.

I just bought the Qudelix K5. I will receive it next week. I'll fiddle a bit with it before buying the new set of headphones !
 
OP
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IMO, no they are not hard to drive. However, mobile devices tend to be current limited below 32 ohm and manufacturers have a tendency to omit that on the datasheet. I sound like a broken record at this point, but I recommend Qudelix 5K as starting point every single time and then augment with something like NX7 ('low' end) or Ampersand (for the Stealth/Susvara users out there) if you feel you need it.

I modified Qudelix's Sundara calculator at link below to match Noire, and it came back with 120dB on balanced out, high power mode. So, I think you'd be OK.

I have both now and I really like the combination. The DCA Noire are really crystal clear, especially in busy passages.

Volume-wise, the Qudelix runs in normal mode. I run low-volume songs at nearly full on both volumes (Phone and Qudelix), but I have to turn it down somewhat for louder songs. So I assume it's ok.

I used the Qudelix wired to have 96KHz/24 bits, although I probably cannot spot the difference with both lossy and lossless versions.

Thanks for the suggestion !
 

tsanguine

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I have both now and I really like the combination. The DCA Noire are really crystal clear, especially in busy passages.

Volume-wise, the Qudelix runs in normal mode. I run low-volume songs at nearly full on both volumes (Phone and Qudelix), but I have to turn it down somewhat for louder songs. So I assume it's ok.

I used the Qudelix wired to have 96KHz/24 bits, although I probably cannot spot the difference with both lossy and lossless versions.

Thanks for the suggestion !
You should always have the phone volume at 100% and adjust as needed on the Qudelix. It's my all time favorite device. It's so functional. It's literally on my keychain everyday.
T1BMVdswoEUaqNZ14yYFc62KvaL65QKG5mXKfv9Qo6q-_Lh9Uhgqi-tL_ba4H4651GEQHyzUfS3EY6XFsXLo5ee6exNVa01CyzkOkm3z8Y1I24roTveIvI7bBRoUo6D_qg3SAso4VnwiFeEP46O8P9WOJ18bBe4CAcEZI78LdjZVzY7uwng_eu3UvhbHGvLbgpoHAzksE0wqjltt8ixVv5dwKpu2pv8ILy4b_KjJ_4-ot9Ou_E37GfTLJLsbjGlAGi_LKDh4rfauQg9aT7w_dK4j82mBJY7zxcNuiTYP8x6dXTp4Fq4P62ISzhuYKAlUjc-HnVgu4FbmPh1SJ5q9fvkFeM6Y1MbtC4jeveDu6wAIVOv3L4gp-LrmeUTN_4CtkKrK0WgMUHd3OqEV4qDTTPrreqHC4g4kWFLuACgk3V_OeF_-Pq0CaQuwEugVOqbtNeU1epXgMjdlW3p0-JxKxGDw2-Gxt5CUGjdAaG6q1dNLlhAbAyUijC_YZjZUIQFdGFmmZ4zTGFCHB0slWyP2wG-zCnee04rA0GZRXBoVOXiNlSPvP6xLWGVAubRNg4mcviJVc796ZJ-GhLShKMh0uT_IQ9DFC2kTLZZ9hlabc9TSVIVn-91a5AivEGn3hOJcEz28oI_SurqDrBeUfjwrAC7TuHZ-jHwqXktl1rs09QnQRPX5Sb7OE8HXIXZWRvYs6h-CtFMsOdPW3XHsuWu8lJXNRpEc3mWOYveGsvAex0Ltg0w7xQa0k28KDXUM=w703-h937-no
 

JanesJr1

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Hello,

I'm on the hunt for a better set of headphones than my Beyer DT250 and I'm really interested by the Dan Clark Audio Noire.

That said, I keep reading that they can be a challenge to drive them properly.

My main use would be connected to my integrated amp (A Moon 220i, so I assume it would not be a problem), sometimes my desktop (a 2020 MacBook Pro) and my iPhone 13.

Would I really need an external DAC/AMP to drive them, which could be a break dealer for me as I would not really like to fuss with that on a regular basis ?

I would also be tempted by the price equivalent, the Focal Celestee, but the critics - here and elsewhere - are not that great it seems.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks !
You definitely need an external amp. I've tried Noire and Closed X with weak dongles and phones: it doesn't work well and will not give you a return on an investment in the Noire phones. However, a good but inexpensive single ended amp like the Atom Amp (about $100) will work*, or either the Hidizs S9 Pro or E1DA 9038s balanced 2.5mm dongles ($80-$109 depending where you buy) will work well**. I've used all three a lot. (Using balanced connectors gets you more power and SPL from the otherwise somewhat weak source of power.) Weak drivers (even including AQ Dragonfly Cobalts) won't do it, though. Qudelix 5k will probably also do ok and has a battery and EQ, though I haven't used it myself. (If a dongle, I like the Hidizs best.)

*If you need a DAC, too, that will be another $110.

**If you use a balanced dongle, you'll save on buying a separate DAC but you will need balanced cables with Hirose connectors for the Noire phones. Hart Audio cables are something like $60-$70; or I've heard you can get balanced cables on AliExpress for somewhat less. The Harts are good and I've seen them recommended for DCA phones a lot here on ASR.

The DCA phones are worth the money for these extras, IMO.
 
Last edited:

sifi36

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You definitely need an external amp. I've tried Noire and Closed X with weak dongles and phones: it doesn't work well and will not give you a return on an investment in the Noire phones. However, a good but inexpensive single ended amp like the Atom Amp (about $100) will work*, or either the Hidizs S9 Pro or E1DA 9038s balanced 2.5mm dongles ($80-$109 depending where you buy) will work well. I've used all three a lot. Weak drivers (even including AQ Dragonfly Cobalts) won't do it, though. Qudelix 5k will probably also do ok and has a battery and EQ, though I haven't used it myself. (If a dongle, I like the Hidizs best.)

*If you need a DAC, too, that will be another $110.

I have the Noire and the Qudelix, it’s fine balanced but output is limited single-ended.
 
OP
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I have the Noire and the Qudelix, it’s fine balanced but output is limited single-ended.
Exactly. It's mostly fine, but some recordings lack the oomphs needed and I think a bit more output would be perfect.

When it's loud enough, the result of both together is frankly superb !
 

sgb

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Just want to add a data point here:

I just got my DCA Aeon 2 Noire with the THX Onyx (Amir's review here) last night. The source was my 2018 iPad Pro 11" with Onyx directly into the USB-C port playing Tidal HiFi.

  • main stream songs e.g. Ben Harper's Burn One Down - volume slider was at less than half way.
  • Jazz music e.g. Wynton Marsalis's New Orlean Bump - volume slider was exactly half way.
It was comfortable to listen for over 1.5 hours at that volume.
 

sifi36

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Just want to add a data point here:

I just got my DCA Aeon 2 Noire with the THX Onyx (Amir's review here) last night. The source was my 2018 iPad Pro 11" with Onyx directly into the USB-C port playing Tidal HiFi.

  • main stream songs e.g. Ben Harper's Burn One Down - volume slider was at less than half way.
  • Jazz music e.g. Wynton Marsalis's New Orlean Bump - volume slider was exactly half way.
It was comfortable to listen for over 1.5 hours at that volume.

Having tried the Onyx myself, it would clip with bass heavy music and Oratory’s EQ. I contacted THX and they said that the Onyx is rated for loads down to 22 ohms, the Noire is rated for 13 ohm if I remember correctly.

I listen to a lot of hip hop and drum and bass so this issue may not present itself if you don’t listen to music with a lot of deep bass.
 

sgb

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Having tried the Onyx myself, it would clip with bass heavy music and Oratory’s EQ. I contacted THX and they said that the Onyx is rated for loads down to 22 ohms, the Noire is rated for 13 ohm if I remember correctly.

I listen to a lot of hip hop and drum and bass so this issue may not present itself if you don’t listen to music with a lot of deep bass.
Will need to do a bit more music exploring tonight. Does it clip even at low volume?
 
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