Are DBTs the defacto standard for Audio Science research?

[Ron Party]

... except in at least one case, that being when it comes to analog vs. digital. You're a brave man, Amir, wading into another one with ddk.

 

[Mivera]

And what matters to people building you products is to predict what you like. Turns out we are remarkably alike in our subjective preferences in audio. It is a completely myth that we all have different tastes.

I don't think it's a myth. Some people like crap that I think sounds terrible. But personally I've had excellent success with people liking the same type of sound that I like as well. But with some it involves sitting down in the room with them and pointing out the differences that matter. With others more experienced, I can just explain how something sounds and they will understand 100%. For example, my 1st PD2 client. I knew exactly how the unit sounded. I told him exactly what filter to use to get what I thought was the best sound. When he gave me his subjective opinion of it, it was described in more accurate terms than I could even come up with on my own. And it was exactly what I thought as well. Was this just a coincidence? Do you think if he would have seen a measured spec sheet he would have been able to describe the tonal balance to a T like that?

In contrast was the 6 moons review that just came out. Not only did he not even utilize the premier feature of the DAC he went out of his way describing in the 1st half of the review, he only gave a comparison based on a DAC that's completely unknown to anyone. And PCM only at that. Absolutely useless if you ask me. If I were a guy off the street looking for a DAC/PRE, I would never buy one based on what I read there.

 

[amirm]

I don't think it's a myth.

Well it is. Let's agree that no where does preference enter into the equation more than speakers. I just finished writing an article that debunks us having different preferences. See http://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...s/are-our-preferences-different-in-audio.284/

 

[amirm]

... except in at least one case, that being when it comes to analog vs. digital. You're a brave man, Amir, wading into another one with ddk.

. Don't intend to keep it going for long.

 

[Dynamix]

Some people like crap that I think sounds terrible.

I'm listening to some crap that you might think sounds terrible right now. A pair of 80 euro Beyerdynamic in-ears plugged straight in to the headphone-out of my laptop. And listening to Youtube.

And I like it. A lot. Because the actual music I'm listening to grooves like there is no tomorrow. No "Hi-End", no DAC, no Head Amp, no nothing. Just some great tunes!

 

[Mivera]

Well it is. Let's agree that no where does preference enter into the equation more than speakers. I just finished writing an article that debunks us having different preferences. See http://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...s/are-our-preferences-different-in-audio.284/

Yes of course speakers have a bigger impact. But just because 1 thing has a bigger impact, it doesn't mean other things don't. If everyone had the same taste, there would only be one type of everything out there. I designed an input buffer for the Hypex NC-500 amps where you can change the opamp to alter the tonal balance to subjective tastes. So far almost everyone has had a different opinion of which they like best in their system. Yet they all describe the same sonic signatures unique to each opamp exactly the same. This concept is such a big hit that a bunch of guys are copying the idea now.

 

[Mivera]

I'm listening to some crap that you might think sounds terrible right now. A pair of 80 euro Beyerdynamic in-ears plugged straight in to the headphone-out of my laptop. And listening to Youtube.

And I like it. A lot. Because the actual music I'm listening to grooves like there is no tomorrow. No "Hi-End", no DAC, no Head Amp, no nothing. Just some great tunes!

I can imagine that it wouldn't be a detriment to your enjoyment if it was a higher end setup

 

[Dynamix]

Yes of course speakers have a bigger impact. But just because 1 thing has a bigger impact, it doesn't mean other things don't. If everyone had the same taste, there would only be one type of everything out there. I designed an input buffer for the Hypex NC-500 amps where you can change the opamp to alter the tonal balance to subjective tastes. So far almost everyone has had a different opinion of which they like best in their system. Yet they all describe the same sonic signatures unique to each opamp exactly the same. This concept is such a big hit that a bunch of guys are copying the idea now.

I know a lot of objective-minded people who subjectively prefer Anaview modules over anything from Hypex, regardless of opamps or not. Just saying.

 

[Dynamix]

I can imagine that it wouldn't be a detriment to your enjoyment if it was a higher end setup

That's true. The neighbors would kill me if I fired up the main system at this hour though. It's like 06:30 over here...

 

[amirm]

Yes of course speakers have a bigger impact. But just because 1 thing has a bigger impact, it doesn't mean other things don't. If everyone had the same taste, there would only be one type of everything out there. I designed an input buffer for the Hypex NC-500 amps where you can change the opamp to alter the tonal balance to subjective tastes. So far almost everyone has had a different opinion of which they like best in their system. Yet they all describe the same sonic signatures unique to each opamp exactly the same. This concept is such a big hit that a bunch of guys are copying the idea now.

Unfortunately no value can be put on sighted tests like this. The data I used isolated the sound as the only arbiter. The tests you describe are not such.

 

[Mivera]

I know a lot of objective-minded people who subjectively prefer Anaview modules over anything from Hypex, regardless of opamps or not. Just saying.

Yes and the reason they do is because they voice the input stage. Where the standard Hypex amps they compare them with have input stages with cheap IC opamps that sound sterile.

 

[Mivera]

Unfortunately no value can be put on sighted tests like this. The data I used isolated the sound as the only arbiter. The tests you describe are not such.

Well it sure is value to the people who are buying them, as well as the guy selling them making the money. Everyone is completely thrilled with the sound and the concept. It allows them to tailor the amps to the exact sound signature they desire.

 

[Dynamix]

Yes and the reason they do is because they voice the input stage. Where the standard Hypex amps they compare them with have input stages with cheap IC opamps that sound sterile.

Just like you voiced the Nord amps. Right?

 

[Mivera]

Just like you voiced the Nord amps. Right?

Everyone gets to voice their own Nord amp. That's what's great about the concept.

 

[Dynamix]

Everyone gets to voice their own Nord amp. That's what's great about the concept.

I know, I'm just pulling your leg. I'm seriously considering a pair of their monoblocks.

 

[Mivera]

I know, I'm just pulling your leg. I'm seriously considering a pair ot their monoblocks.

Well there's a new guy not who has copied the idea as well. and he's making the case out a solid milled chunk of aluminum. I told him he better provide measurements if he wants to be taken seriously.

 

[tomelex]

Well said. If you were to show me a circuit-diagram I'd honestly have no idea if I was looking at an audio amplifier or a toaster oven. I come from a "Tractor is broken, give me BIG hammer!" background. But I sincerely hope that that does not mean that I have to rely only on the flowery prose of "reviewers" and marketing material. Been there, done that, and bought the cryogenically treated quantum tunneled t-shirt.

There should be a middle ground here, but being told by people with superior technical knowledge that I'm forever doomed to some sort of subjectivist purgatory isn't exactly helping.

I came here to learn. Had no idea that would mean that I would have to go back to school and become an EE first.

Sorry this whole EE, ET thing was just to make a point, that we all are not highly skilled audio designers or DIY types or whatever. However, in order to as you say "learn" here, you have to drink some electronics kool-aid. Not on all topics, but on some. It is up to folks here to express their views in a manner that others at some level can understand or ask the right questions.

 

[tomelex]

Well there's a new guy not who has copied the idea as well. and he's making the case out a solid milled chunk of aluminum. I told him he better provide measurements if he wants to be taken seriously.

Afraid to say that the chunk of aluminium these days seems to be what is taken seriously!

 

[Opus111]

Being 'taken seriously' is highly overrated

 

[Mivera]

Afraid to say that the chunk of aluminium these days seems to be what is taken seriously!

Real men like precision machined aluminum billet