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Are cheap valve (tube) amps as effective as expensive, if adding a touch of distortion is the goal?

DVDdoug said:
I read about something similar once. A guy was repairing a guitar amp and besides the repair, he found a "defect" in the circuit. I don't remember exactly but maybe it was a resistor that made the positive & negative halves of the waveform asymmetrical. He "fixed it" but the guitar player said it didn't sound right. He put it back the way it was originally designed and the guitar player was happy again.
Click to expand...
It's not unknown for guitar amp designers to do things like that intentionally. Some have even used different valve types for the push and pull.
 
DVDdoug said:
I read about something similar once. A guy was repairing a guitar amp and besides the repair, he found a "defect" in the circuit. I don't remember exactly but maybe it was a resistor that made the positive & negative halves of the waveform asymmetrical. He "fixed it" but the guitar player said it didn't sound right. He put it back the way it was originally designed and the guitar player was happy again.
Click to expand...
That's the difference between creation and reproduction

It's like when you print a photo, some people likes the sepia effect
 
so, there are always options...

DSCF6491.jpg
 
With the lovely harmonics .....

1774262154713.png


..... also comes intermodulation distortion which is anything BUT pleasing as it is not harmonic related.

1774262206683.png
 
Some of us old-timers prefer the warm harmonics of a slide rule, though.
 
The most expensive part of tube amps (and the most valued) is the output stage (need big expensive output transformers and output tubes).The cheap modern tube amps are hybrid solid state and tube, so they rely on tube for the pre-amp but not the output stage. Harmonic distortion is mostly introduced at output stage, so you won't get a ton of "tube effect".
 
Harmonic distortion (in the cheapies) are mostly caused by the tube that is used on a too low anode voltage and thus very low current + there usually is no feedback thus high gain (tube dependent). The SS output stages do not add any meaningful distortion.

In all tube (and Tx output) amps things are very different and usually distortion is lower because of feedback being used.
The transformers usually add odd harmonics where tubes (are usually highest on 2nd harm and getting lower for each harmonic.
 
You may just like the looks of tube gear.

It is going to me more cost effective to start with software like

Distort audibility tester | Distort documentation

distortaudio.org distortaudio.org

Then as others have said run you music through software plugins, in a DAW or lightweight computer plugin host.. Most plugins have a free trial period;

There are a few ASR threads on tubes in recording. Some people like tube microphones, especially on close microphone placement for vocals. The early microphone preamps, line amps, tape record reproduce, EQ, and compressors were all tube and transformer. Some studios including mastering today including the older studios have the option of tube hardware processing. Since mastering studios do a lot of compression of either stereo, or mid-side, that is going to be somewhat similar to the home listening environment. So see what tube hardware mastering studios are using these days.
 
DSJR said:
In the UK, we had Croft preamps (until he passed away and left instructions that any stock or unfinished units were to be destroyed after his passing a very few years ago). These measured quite well, sounded great and transparent on the whole (sorry to fudge here, but the more sophisticated models did seem to make subtle details less 'buried' in the mix) on the whole and didn't change so much with tube rolling).

When the old Mullard/Philips concern that made CRTs for TVs ceased making them, a number of staff used the same basic modern long life tech as used in the CRTs to update some popular valves (TechTube brand?). The best prototypes performed well, but initial listeners found the sound too dry in nature (I suspect similar to solid state?). Some 'slight ringing' was introduced to satisfy this. The concern didn't last long sadly and I'm darned if I can quickly find reference to this concern :(

audioxpress.com

The TechTube Blackburn E813CC: A New Approach to Tube Design

We invite our readers to a return to the past, when the original Blackburn manufacturing site where Millard tubes were once made, was shipping the TechTube Blackburn E813CC - an engineering effort to redesign the ECC83 dual triode, claiming more accuracy and more consistency. "The famous...
audioxpress.com audioxpress.com

Techtube valves/tubes

Hi. I'm new to this group so hello everyone. I have some first hand information about the new TechTube tube as I have been helping with its development and Andy Blades of Blackburn Micro Tech has given me permission to talk about it. I have been using some pre production E813CC double triodes...
www.diyaudio.com www.diyaudio.com

I have serious doubts if valves can be used *cheaply* to any real effect other than visual...
Click to expand...
A happy Croft user here for 25 ish years. Epoch Elite full valve,and a newer P7 R. Hybrid.
 
tobyjug said:
A happy Croft user here for 25 ish years. Epoch Elite full valve,and a newer P7 R. Hybrid.
Click to expand...
Just be aware of the very high distortion in the 7R power amp (7 was tested by Paul Miller and Stereophile had a right old go at the integrated, which hard clipped every time I heard it, together with the high 2.4 ohm output impedance that does a splendid job of equalising speakers as it tracks their impedance curves....

When Harbeth tweaked their SHL5 to have a flatter response at crossover (as confirmed by Stereophile, although the older test on the former 'scooped out by ~3dB' model seems to have disappeared)), I thought the new revised models shrieked when driven by a Series 7 amp. Later, I heard the same set of speakers with a modern load-immune amp design and the penny dropped - the Croft was eq'ing the speakers up at crossover as it followed the impedance curve where the modern great 'sounding' amps weren't. It's very sad Glenn isn't here now as he was a 'good guy' in this now cutthroat industry, but my experiences with the behaviour of the Series 7 really did put me off. The Quad Artera (and the 'new' 33/303' by all accounts) amps 'sound' so good anyway, are made so well and solidly for not much money by high-end standards these days, it makes the use of valves totally redundant and they're not missed by me at least. I'm speaking as a former Croft owner too (Series IVPP preamp which is an ancestor of the 25R and a rather disastrous OTL power amp which blew its line fuses daily and at random, even into easy loads at low volumes and on one occasion, giving a firework display internally when playing at very low volume while I was chatting with friends!).
 
DSJR said:
Just be aware of the very high distortion in the 7R power amp (7 was tested by Paul Miller and Stereophile had a right old go at the integrated, which hard clipped every time I heard it, together with the high 2.4 ohm output impedance that does a splendid job of equalising speakers as it tracks their impedance curves....

When Harbeth tweaked their SHL5 to have a flatter response at crossover (as confirmed by Stereophile, although the older test on the former 'scooped out by ~3dB' model seems to have disappeared)), I thought the new revised models shrieked when driven by a Series 7 amp. Later, I heard the same set of speakers with a modern load-immune amp design and the penny dropped - the Croft was eq'ing the speakers up at crossover as it followed the impedance curve where the modern great 'sounding' amps weren't. It's very sad Glenn isn't here now as he was a 'good guy' in this now cutthroat industry, but my experiences with the behaviour of the Series 7 really did put me off. The Quad Artera (and the 'new' 33/303' by all accounts) amps 'sound' so good anyway, are made so well and solidly for not much money by high-end standards these days, it makes the use of valves totally redundant and they're not missed by me at least. I'm speaking as a former Croft owner too (Series IVPP preamp which is an ancestor of the 25R and a rather disastrous OTL power amp which blew its line fuses daily and at random, even into easy loads at low volumes and on one occasion, giving a firework display internally when playing at very low volume while I was chatting with friends!).
Click to expand...
Just, thank You for the "boost ' of my, Artera pre amp, and Platinum monoblocks! May they last forever!
 
A cou
DavidEdwinAston said:
Just, thank You for the "boost ' of my, Artera pre amp, and Platinum monoblocks! May they last forever!
Click to expand...
Enjoying the full Artera set beforehand, a couple of years ago, I installed an Artera Play Plus (basically 'your preamp' I believe, with built-in CD drive) and was stunned by the very-solid build, cotton gloves supplied to help fitting the glass top plate and the excellent sonic performance (think grain-free Accuphase on a budget). All my stuff is truly ancient, but as and when it has to go, a preamp like this would be top of the list whatever speakers I end up with :)
 
DSJR said:
A cou

Enjoying the full Artera set beforehand, a couple of years ago, I installed an Artera Play Plus (basically 'your preamp' I believe, with built-in CD drive) and was stunned by the very-solid build, cotton gloves supplied to help fitting the glass top plate and the excellent sonic performance (think grain-free Accuphase on a budget). All my stuff is truly ancient, but as and when it has to go, a preamp like this would be top of the list whatever speakers I end up with :)
Click to expand...
Those gloves! To die for eh? :)
 
DSJR said:
Just be aware of the very high distortion in the 7R power amp (7 was tested by Paul Miller and Stereophile had a right old go at the integrated, which hard clipped every time I heard it, together with the high 2.4 ohm output impedance that does a splendid job of equalising speakers as it tracks their impedance curves....

When Harbeth tweaked their SHL5 to have a flatter response at crossover (as confirmed by Stereophile, although the older test on the former 'scooped out by ~3dB' model seems to have disappeared)), I thought the new revised models shrieked when driven by a Series 7 amp. Later, I heard the same set of speakers with a modern load-immune amp design and the penny dropped - the Croft was eq'ing the speakers up at crossover as it followed the impedance curve where the modern great 'sounding' amps weren't. It's very sad Glenn isn't here now as he was a 'good guy' in this now cutthroat industry, but my experiences with the behaviour of the Series 7 really did put me off. The Quad Artera (and the 'new' 33/303' by all accounts) amps 'sound' so good anyway, are made so well and solidly for not much money by high-end standards these days, it makes the use of valves totally redundant and they're not missed by me at least. I'm speaking as a former Croft owner too (Series IVPP preamp which is an ancestor of the 25R and a rather disastrous OTL power amp which blew its line fuses daily and at random, even into easy loads at low volumes and on one occasion, giving a firework display internally when playing at very low volume while I was chatting with friends!).
Click to expand...
Thanks . I know there are lots of people who love the Croft / Harbeth combo and I generally fall into that bracket. C7 es 3.
My hearing isn't great ,(2 ops for surfers ear) and I'm increasingly finding it hard to listen too my set up as it tends to just overwhelm in the highs.
Maybe it's time to consider a change of Amps. Budget is minimal Pensioner and all that.
Also I seem to enjoy the music more when listening to the system from the adjacent kitchen! The sound in the lounge just gets too much and I have to turn it down to listen. Maybe the room is bouncing the high frequencies around and I need some room treatment.I would say it's moderately soft in nature at the moment, curtains, large rug etc.
I was a stick in the mud record guy, but now trying to live with a (bit perfect) digital source too, but honestly it's not being easy to love.Ive been trying to convince myself for a few years.I can appreciate cd playback in my system in many ways but it's still sounding hard and bright often. Could of course be down to bad recordings being shown up. I am a bit dazed
(old) and confused to be honest.
 
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