• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Are "audio grade electrolytic capacitors" snake oil?

wwenze

Major Contributor
Joined
May 22, 2018
Messages
1,284
Likes
1,827

I just repaired a crossover and during test I used those kind of crocodile clips... The contact was so bad the frequency varies between reconnections.

VPMwqL4.png
 

solderdude

Grand Contributor
Joined
Jul 21, 2018
Messages
15,891
Likes
35,912
Location
The Neitherlands
I have ad many of those same crocodile clips failing. The wire inside is poorly connected to the metal and often breaks or just hangs on with just one of the very few and very thin strands increasing resistance of such jumper cables.
They have crappy thin wiring inside anyway.
Not recommended to use any where some current is drawn.
 

ZeDestructor

Active Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2019
Messages
119
Likes
68
Sorry but I disagree. Capxon capacitors, besides the capacitors plague, are constantly associated with failing devices. They were exploding two years ago, they were in the Samsung tvc, they are in Behringer products with high fail rate, they are in failing SMPS. They are all over the internet and from a customer standpoint I would not buy a device with CapXon capacitors inside, ever.

Because those failing devices are engineered for very short longevity. If you stick a 105°C, 5000 hour capacitor right next to a FET that's running at 115°C's heatsink, with no airflow to cool things down, (normal in a fanless mixer or TV) *of course* it's gonna die an ugly death. Thing is, it's gonna die even if it's an oversized rubycon or Nichicon. Ofc, shit products don't use nice components cause those cost more

The converse is also true- there's loads of OEM desktops and laptops from the big 3 OEMs (Dell, HP, Lenovo) that use second-tier caps and they run fine for 10+ years because there's a decent bit of reliability engineering going on in those - the big 3 need to make em hit a 7 year minimum designed service life, otherwise the cost of sending techs on field replacement trips all around the world and the logistics of shipping all those spare components around evaporates whatever tiny profit margin they're getting. Ofc, you never hear about these billions of perfectly functional, reliable products.

I'm not saying that caps don't matter - they certainly do (you won't find me buying a Fuhjjyuu-containing product if I can help it, for example), but design matters just as much, if not more. Both electrical and physical.

Finally, you have to keep in mind is that when you sum up the sheer count of products shipped, you're well into the billions of items shipped while it only takes a few thousand bad reviews for one to acquire a bad reputation, making a product that's just fine seem like a terrible product. Of course, you are free to ignore the evidence, but that's not very scientific, is it, now?
 

Vini darko

Major Contributor
Joined
Jun 1, 2020
Messages
2,280
Likes
3,395
Location
Dorset England
For me the main consideration is price. When I, say recap a old item. I'll first go to rs components and see what it's gonna cost having to buy huge amounts of most values I need. Then I'll go to hifi collective and do the same but for individual audiofool stuff. 8 times outta 10 it's cheaper to buy more expensive parts individually than having to bulk buy. So that's what I do.
 

mannye

Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2019
Messages
29
Likes
34
Is there a source for information on which manufacturer makes caps and resistors that are the “best” as in “at or close to ratings and stay that way for a long time” ?

Unless one is an avid DIYer it’s very hard to know what to buy.
 

mansr

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 5, 2018
Messages
4,685
Likes
10,700
Location
Hampshire
Is there a source for information on which manufacturer makes caps and resistors that are the “best” as in “at or close to ratings and stay that way for a long time” ?

Unless one is an avid DIYer it’s very hard to know what to buy.
Good ones will have ageing parameters specified in the data sheet.
 

carlob

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 4, 2019
Messages
736
Likes
1,027
Location
Roma, Italy
Is there a source for information on which manufacturer makes caps and resistors that are the “best” as in “at or close to ratings and stay that way for a long time” ?

Unless one is an avid DIYer it’s very hard to know what to buy.

It depends on the application
 

kn0ppers

Active Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2019
Messages
192
Likes
258
Location
Germany
Note that this is only my personal opinion and I fully support the statements from carlob and mansr.

As far as resistors go: Panasonic, Susumu, Vishay and TE Conn. are probably 4 of the most popular and reputable manufacturers and they all usually have extensive datasheets. In my projects I use lots of MELF MMA0204 from Vishay as well as Susumu RG-Series or Panasonic ERA-Series 0805 precision resistors. For through-hole mainly MBB0207 from Vishay. It also depends on availability and price a lot. For example in the EU, Panasonic ERA-Series are fairly affordable (for 0,1%-precision resistors) on TME.eu as long as you buy 100+ per value, so that's why I use those a lot. For non-precision resistors, I stick to reputable brands and go by price mainly.
 
Last edited:

A800

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Dec 22, 2019
Messages
734
Likes
615
Counterfeits are a problem.
 

carlob

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 4, 2019
Messages
736
Likes
1,027
Location
Roma, Italy
Note that this is only my personal opinion and I fully support the statements from carlob and mansr.

As far as resistors go: Panasonic, Susumu, Vishay and TE Conn. are probably 3 of the most popular and reputable manufacturers and they all usually have extensive datasheets. In my projects I use lots of MELF MMA0204 from Vishay as well as Susumu RG-Series or Panasonic ERA-Series 0805 precision resistors. For through-hole mainly MBB0207 from Vishay. It also depends on availability and price a lot. For example in the EU, Panasonic ERA-Series are fairly affordable (for 0,1%-precision resistors) on TME.eu as long as you buy 100+ per value, so that's why I use those a lot. For non-precision resistors, I stick to reputable brands and go by price mainly.

This is good advice. If we had more info on mannye intended application probably we could be more specific. Is it an audio circuit? Capacitors for what, power supply, line? Coupling capacitors? Are them in audio path or not? Resistors for what, do they need to be high precision? Parts are through-hole or SMD? There is no "best", unfortunately it takes some time, effort and knowledge to select the right part for your circuit. As a general advice you don't want to buy parts from aliexpress (for sure no capacitors!), buy only brand parts from reputable vendors (Mouser, Digikey, etc.)
 

Hidde

Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2020
Messages
15
Likes
19
Note that this is only my personal opinion and I fully support the statements from carlob and mansr.

As far as resistors go: Panasonic, Susumu, Vishay and TE Conn. are probably 3 of the most popular and reputable manufacturers and they all usually have extensive datasheets. In my projects I use lots of MELF MMA0204 from Vishay as well as Susumu RG-Series or Panasonic ERA-Series 0805 precision resistors. For through-hole mainly MBB0207 from Vishay. It also depends on availability and price a lot. For example in the EU, Panasonic ERA-Series are fairly affordable (for 0,1%-precision resistors) on TME.eu as long as you buy 100+ per value, so that's why I use those a lot. For non-precision resistors, I stick to reputable brands and go by price mainly.

Yeah those Vishay's are awesome (I haven't used the others), however they are also priced accordingly, but that goes for most thin films. Personally I have good experiences with Rubicon, Nichicon and Wima as well. Though Nichicon does this audiophool marketing with the UFG and UKZ series which I don't like, but the quality on them is great imo.
 

kn0ppers

Active Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2019
Messages
192
Likes
258
Location
Germany
Apparently the MMU0102/MMA0204/MMB0207 are all made in Germany, so that's also one of the reasons I buy them. I like supporting local manufacturing. I think it has something to do with their use in automotive electronics and the market position of German car companies and automotive electronics suppliers like Continental and Bosch. I might as well be totally wrong though, but to me that sounds like a reasonable explanation why they wouldn't move those production lines to the other end of the globe.
 
OP
thyristor

thyristor

Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2020
Messages
69
Likes
128
I did a capacitor "upgrade" for Behringer UMC202HD with Nichicon FG. Did it make a difference? IDK. Original caps are CapXcon and Jamicon TK.

I did it out of boredom because of covid lockdown. It's not like 15 € worth of caps is going to break the bank.

The phantom power cap (top most big can) is only 470uf. If you use the phantom power you may want to use a bigger cap there. 5v USB isn't really enough anyway but most microphones that use 48v phantom will still work.

I use this only for needle drops so phantom power doesn't matter to me.
caps.png
caps2.png
.
 

DonH56

Master Contributor
Technical Expert
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 15, 2016
Messages
7,835
Likes
16,497
Location
Monument, CO
@thyristor - It only sends 5 V to the mics for phantom power? Most I have seen (very few) use a boost regulator to bump that up to something more reasonable, at least to the 9 V ~ 12 V range if not the full 48 V. My old cheap USB preamp (can't remember if Art, PreSonus, or something else) had that, though it needed a powerful USB hub or external supply for a big condenser mic.

Cool username BTW...
 

solderdude

Grand Contributor
Joined
Jul 21, 2018
Messages
15,891
Likes
35,912
Location
The Neitherlands
Phantom is 48V, the DCDC converter is fed from 5V. Similar as to all other USB fed interfaces with 48V phantom supplies
 

Octalman

Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2020
Messages
19
Likes
8
For those interested in possibly learning something, look up the work of Cyril Bateman.
 

SIY

Grand Contributor
Technical Expert
Joined
Apr 6, 2018
Messages
10,386
Likes
24,752
Location
Alfred, NY
For those interested in possibly learning something, look up the work of Cyril Bateman.
Bateman’s articles are interesting, but one must be careful to understand the areas of validity for the sorts of measurements he presents.
 

Octalman

Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2020
Messages
19
Likes
8
So exactly what are the areas of validity that must be understood? Please explain use of the word "interesting" with regard to other works that would be good reading.
 
Top Bottom