Thx I will call it digital Retrospeaker
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Are all passive speakers officially "retro"?
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Killingbeans
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+1Yes!
Outside of the hobby, the rest of the world has moved on a long time ago.
Wireless Headphones, Bluetooth speakers, Sonos, Airpods, Kef LS50/60 etc...
I think we tend to forget, we're the outliers
Waxx
Major Contributor
Certainly not, it's an older technology, but it's still the most sold speaker outside full integrated systems like boomboxes and smart speakers. But must "serious music lovers" down here still swear by passive speakers where the amps are not build in the speaker. Even objectivists do, so they can have a dsp and amp per driver, but outside the speaker box. But most still use the old systems with an integrated amp and 2 speakers, because it's what they know. The general public, outside the nerds like down here are very conservative on this.
Active speakers are mostly used by people who or want it very mobile (bluetooth speakers) or use them as design object where they need to fit in a modern decor with the least cables as possible. I see it even with young people, when they don't get "monitors" (many do btw), it's passive with an integrated amp when they are "serious about sound quality".
Pro audio is changing although, you see more and more active speaker systems appear as very powerfull amp modules are light now with modules like those from Powersoft. So they don't add much weight to the speaker cabinets and are easier to manage than big amp racks. But it's also a slow change.
Active speakers are mostly used by people who or want it very mobile (bluetooth speakers) or use them as design object where they need to fit in a modern decor with the least cables as possible. I see it even with young people, when they don't get "monitors" (many do btw), it's passive with an integrated amp when they are "serious about sound quality".
Pro audio is changing although, you see more and more active speaker systems appear as very powerfull amp modules are light now with modules like those from Powersoft. So they don't add much weight to the speaker cabinets and are easier to manage than big amp racks. But it's also a slow change.
I'd forgotten about The Verge. I dipped my toe into their "storystream" just now but looks like they are a shadow of their former selves, hard to find a decent length article. I used to read them somewhat regularly but I guess as their content deteriorated and diminished I eventually just forgot to go back.
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Passive speakers and separates will never disappear
Usages have evolved and diversified, for sure, and that's normal.
You have now all-in-one electronics (streamer, preamp, dac ,amp) and also fully standalone active speakers with all-in-one electronics.
And more complete ones with DSP.
There is a wide consumer target for that.
But there are still many people who do not want all of these all-one-boxes because these ones :
- can get easily obsolete because of one sub piece becomes obsolete (outdated network protocol or streaming services or control application, outdated DSP, outdated amp, outdated dac,...)
- can stop working because of one sub component dead or malfunctioning (failed PSU, failed electronic, failed amp...).
One piece being outdated or broken makes the all system down.
And don't tell me that manufacturers of these all-in-one boxes will fully support and maintain these released ones for decades. This is not even possible from a industrial and manufacturing stand point.
They will provide new models and then people will have to buy new ones.
All in one boxes are representative of the consumerist era. Pretexting "easy integration" , it will force you to consume more in the long term.
While passive speakers can last multiple dozens of years. Who can say the same for PSU and amp modules??
Personally, I prefer not putting my eggs in the same basket, and have speakers apart from electronics, and have power amps apart preamps/DSP/DACs.
And selecting part/devices that suits best my needs/constraints/expectations for each domain.
And replace/upgrade a part whenever I need to.
And not even taking about "no one can excell in all domains".
But I truly understand the mass market orientation for proposing these all-in-one boxes.
Just not my thing
Usages have evolved and diversified, for sure, and that's normal.
You have now all-in-one electronics (streamer, preamp, dac ,amp) and also fully standalone active speakers with all-in-one electronics.
And more complete ones with DSP.
There is a wide consumer target for that.
But there are still many people who do not want all of these all-one-boxes because these ones :
- can get easily obsolete because of one sub piece becomes obsolete (outdated network protocol or streaming services or control application, outdated DSP, outdated amp, outdated dac,...)
- can stop working because of one sub component dead or malfunctioning (failed PSU, failed electronic, failed amp...).
One piece being outdated or broken makes the all system down.
And don't tell me that manufacturers of these all-in-one boxes will fully support and maintain these released ones for decades. This is not even possible from a industrial and manufacturing stand point.
They will provide new models and then people will have to buy new ones.
All in one boxes are representative of the consumerist era. Pretexting "easy integration" , it will force you to consume more in the long term.
While passive speakers can last multiple dozens of years. Who can say the same for PSU and amp modules??
Personally, I prefer not putting my eggs in the same basket, and have speakers apart from electronics, and have power amps apart preamps/DSP/DACs.
And selecting part/devices that suits best my needs/constraints/expectations for each domain.
And replace/upgrade a part whenever I need to.
And not even taking about "no one can excell in all domains".
But I truly understand the mass market orientation for proposing these all-in-one boxes.
Just not my thing
The cable TV (USA) company sent out a tech to replace my modem/router. He worked right next to my Revel F208 floorstander speaker. He asked, "what are these?" I had to explain. He was an experienced tech, in his 20s. He had to have been in hundreds of homes...
I think it is primarily personal music choices listened through headphones that are killing home audio.
I think it is primarily personal music choices listened through headphones that are killing home audio.
Similar - I had an electrician come by to do some repairs and install a new outlet a few weeks back. He saw my F208s and said, "Wow, that's really old-school, isn't it?" He had to be in his late 30s / early 40s.The cable TV (USA) company sent out a tech to replace my modem/router. He worked right next to my Revel F208 floorstander speaker. He asked, "what are these?" I had to explain. He was an experienced tech, in his 20s. He had to have been in hundreds of homes...
I think it is primarily personal music choices listened through headphones that are killing home audio.
At least he recognized them as speakers (I think).
fpitas
Master Contributor
Here at least, it's also often badly made imitations of old stuff sold to the ignorant.
Emlin
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Retro orter be better.
Killingbeans
Major Contributor
I'm in my early 40s and I can totally relate to that dude. Not young enough to see passive speakers as something from the Jurassic, but definitely old-school.
D
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Prana Ferox
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The Verge is trash
Once you realize it is consistently, reliably trash, it's not worth thinking out any further articles
Once you realize it is consistently, reliably trash, it's not worth thinking out any further articles
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Same experience however I was having to explain Acoustat Two electrostats. In that case, he was at first not believing me and then wanted to hear them. He was amazed he said. While working next to one he noticed the speaker wire coming from my big amp. Asked, "are those speakers?". Then, "why do speakers need their own power cord?".The cable TV (USA) company sent out a tech to replace my modem/router. He worked right next to my Revel F208 floorstander speaker. He asked, "what are these?" I had to explain. He was an experienced tech, in his 20s. He had to have been in hundreds of homes...
I think it is primarily personal music choices listened through headphones that are killing home audio.
To me, it totally depends on individual goals and preferences - and it's great to have choices, and I hope they don't take them away from us.
But not all active speakers are the same. Some simply have amplification built-in, other have the entire streaming app and even room correction built into them. The latter is super convenient, but such a high degree of integration of hardware and software is not build for longevity. No company ever has supported a hardware platform with software updates forever, let's be very aware of that.
Hence, I think my personal preference goes in two possible ways:
- Passive speakers, paired with a subwoofer and an integrated amp-streamer (or even separate amp and streamers) that also incudes hi-pass filter and room correction.
- Active speakers with amplification built in, paired with a smart preamp-streamer that also of course includes high-pass filter and room correction.
Put everything into a single device, and you can guarantee in a few years you'll need to start adding boxes to re-add the functionality that was discontinued from you once hyper-integrated device. It's just the way it goes.
But not all active speakers are the same. Some simply have amplification built-in, other have the entire streaming app and even room correction built into them. The latter is super convenient, but such a high degree of integration of hardware and software is not build for longevity. No company ever has supported a hardware platform with software updates forever, let's be very aware of that.
Hence, I think my personal preference goes in two possible ways:
- Passive speakers, paired with a subwoofer and an integrated amp-streamer (or even separate amp and streamers) that also incudes hi-pass filter and room correction.
- Active speakers with amplification built in, paired with a smart preamp-streamer that also of course includes high-pass filter and room correction.
Put everything into a single device, and you can guarantee in a few years you'll need to start adding boxes to re-add the functionality that was discontinued from you once hyper-integrated device. It's just the way it goes.
Most what you said has merit but look at test specs, connectivity and cost of all-in-one from minDSP or Lygdorf. They are bargains compared to comparable separates that test as good. With bargain brand WiiM adding amps to their units can DSP be far behind in the line-up, prices will drop.Passive speakers and separates will never disappear
Usages have evolved and diversified, for sure, and that's normal.
You have now all-in-one electronics (streamer, preamp, dac ,amp) and also fully standalone active speakers with all-in-one electronics.
And more complete ones with DSP.
There is a wide consumer target for that.
But there are still many people who do not want all of these all-one-boxes because these ones :
- can get easily obsolete because of one sub piece becomes obsolete (outdated network protocol or streaming services or control application, outdated DSP, outdated amp, outdated dac,...)
- can stop working because of one sub component dead or malfunctioning (failed PSU, failed electronic, failed amp...).
One piece being outdated or broken makes the all system down.
And don't tell me that manufacturers of these all-in-one boxes will fully support and maintain these released ones for decades. This is not even possible from a industrial and manufacturing stand point.
They will provide new models and then people will have to buy new ones.
All in one boxes are representative of the consumerist era. Pretexting "easy integration" , it will force you to consume more in the long term.
While passive speakers can last multiple dozens of years. Who can say the same for PSU and amp modules??
Personally, I prefer not putting my eggs in the same basket, and have speakers apart from electronics, and have power amps apart preamps/DSP/DACs.
And selecting part/devices that suits best my needs/constraints/expectations for each domain.
And replace/upgrade a part whenever I need to.
And not even taking about "no one can excell in all domains".
But I truly understand the mass market orientation for proposing these all-in-one boxes.
Just not my thing
I'd much rather run a low-level speaker wire under my rug than try to figure out how to run extension cords to get power to where my speakers are located. And that's basically true for all of my systems.
I suspect the popularity of consumer powered speakers is with the gaming/office-desktop crowd who plug their speakers into line-level audio outputs on their computers.
I get why they are popular for portable commercial PA systems. A powered mixer is a heavy beast (at least mine is) and PA speakers with plate amps in them aren't much heavier than unpowered PA speakers, given the weight of roadie-proof enclosures. But power head weight notwithstanding, carrying speaker cables in the kit isn't much more work than carrying extension cords in the kit, and it would be one or the other. Both gotta be taped down. The extension cord in many commercial settings would require a union electrician, too.
From a theoretical point of view, a powered speaker can be fully equalized internally for all of its anechoic responses, and can use DSP for the crossover or even biamping with greater convenience. That allows the speaker designer more freedom to match amplification, EQ, and drivers. External EQ could at that point focus on room correction rather than driver correction. I can't imagine the typical audiophile accepting that solution, notwithstanding the theoretical improvements. It would almost assuredly use (gasp! ack! horrors!) Class D plate amps.
But until I live in a house that has a duplex receptacle every two feet instead of one on each wall, powered speakers actually require more wire-running than non-powered speakers.
Rick "thinking the use cases still point to both approaches" Denney
