Are all DACs a scam?

[simplywyn]

As a trained electrical engineer specializing in digital signal processing (DSP), I find the audio world to be quite ridiculous. I worked with radars and radios, including the Bluetooth radio stack on the BlackBerry. I see the entire audio industry filled with ignorance or just mind-boggling stupidity, as this world is a mechanical, slow version of my world (EM transmission).

I stumbled onto this video, and it makes total sense. So are all DACs just a scam? The same goes for amps. As long as you measure the output and the signal is present, ultimately, it's an electrical signal that goes into the speakers, nothing more.

 

[sam_adams]

So are all DACs just a scam? The same goes for amps.

You may be on to something here . . .

 

[Chrispy]

Try this FB group if you want to read some ridiculous stuff https://www.facebook.com/groups/328518039319750

ps as far as general marketing of dacs and amps, ya think?

 

[DVDdoug]

I totally agree with your sentiment but scam is a strong word. And of course you NEED a DAC to play digital audio, but I've never owned a stand-alone DAC. There's a DAC in my AVR, computer, CD player, phone, my old iPod, etc.

I'm not sure how many of the marketing claims are downright false. They might use a lot of "audiophile terminology" the describe the (supposed) sound, but most of those words invoke feelings rather than anything technical or scientific and their claims can't be proven or disproven.

I'd say high-end DACs are a poor value, and not worth the money (to me).

Some DACs measure better than others, but if all you need is analog to digital conversion at line level, you don't need anything special and most DACs are better than human hearing. A lot of DACs have headphone amplifiers (with varying performance), volume control knobs, some have remote control, and other features. But as far as value, my inexpensive AVR has those features and more, and it was about the price of a "good DAC" (a few hundred dollars).

Most of the audiophile community is nuts, or "audiophools" and a lot of this is demand driven. A higher price makes the product more desirable!

 

[unpluggged]

So are all DACs just a scam?

Are you trying to say that no DAC converts digital audio to analog signal?

The same goes for amps

So no amp is amplifying the signal on its input?

I stumbled onto this video, and it makes total sense.

No, it does not. YouTube videos of this sort have commercial agenda.

 

[terryforsythe]

No, it does not. YouTube videos of this sort have commercial agenda.

What about the video does not make sense?

What is that video's commercial agenda?

 

[Newman]

Are you trying to say that no DAC converts digital audio to analog signal?


So no amp is amplifying the signal on its input?

Is that really what you think he is trying to say? Really?

 

[solderdude]

The conclusion is not all DACs are a scam.

The conclusion is overpriced DACs are a scam.
The question is when is any DAC overpriced and why.

The guy in the video is correct.

My only comment would be that not all DAC devices use off the shelf DAC chips.
There are some DAC device manufacturers that build their own DACs.
But here too... they don't have to be really expensive and most of those manufacturers peddle snake-oil (if only in the form of NOS) in order to satisfy their target audience and increase sales.

 

[voodooless]

The claims are often a scam. Generally the products perform just fine. Which is exactly what the video points out. Sure, the title is clickbait, but isn’t that convention by now?

 

[voodooless]

What is that video's commercial agenda?

The only commercial agenda is to take away money from the nonsense peddlers The guy has 22k subs, hardly enough to make anything from.

 

[JSmith]

Sure, the title is clickbait, but isn’t that convention by now?

Yeah, absolutely... I couldn't even count the number of videos on YT that are titled "It finally happened!" for e.g., then one watches it and finds out nothing has really happened at all.


JSmith

 

[Rednaxela]

I don't think all DACs are a scam.

The D/A conversion part of a DAC is a solved problem that shouldn't cost an arm and a leg. However, my perfect DAC is a functional device at the heart of my system, of which the D/A conversion part is only a fraction of everything I'd like it to offer. Not wanting to misquote the video but I would not agree with the sentiment that because D/A conversion can be had for a tenner or so a DAC shouldn't cost much more. I'm more than happy to pay for aesthetically pleasing casework, a good screen, a nice remote, great knob feel, an adequate range of inputs, low idle/stdby power consumption, DSP etc.

 

[Koeitje]

Scam is a big word, because most of these still do D/A conversion with no audible errors (some garbage like TotalDAC excluded). Its just outrageous and false marketing. Then again I'm also not saying that €100 is the maximum a DAC should cost, because there is for more to it than just performance: durability of the used components, build quality of the case/buttons, connectivity, DSPs, design, screens, remotes etc..

 

[solderdude]

I'm more than happy to pay for aesthetically pleasing casework, a good screen, a nice remote, great knob feel, an adequate range of inputs, low idle/stdby power consumption, DSP etc.

The point the guy in the video makes though is about excessively priced DACs. (That's what I got from it)
He does not state that fancy components and functionality does not cost anything.

The thing is where the 'tipping point' is what people want to pay extra for bells and whistles and functionality. That will differ from person to person.
One could say... any price between $ 10 and $ 1000 would be a fair 'range' for that.
The video addresses the issue that, when it comes to sound quality (and functionality), even the $ 1000.- DAC devices already could be heavily over-priced and based on 'money grabbing'.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Without having seen this specific video, this youtuber has 100% clickbait videos, and 100% of the videos I have seen from him so far are imprecise at best, and plain wrong and misinformation at worst. What his agenda is, I don't know.

 

[Purité Audio]

I remember as a child watching a consumer show in the U.K. hosted by Ester Rantzen one of their pieces examined a fairly expensive stereo with two large ‘drivers’ which actually only contained one small radio and two toilet rolls the ‘drivers’ were just covers.
That was a scam.
Keith

 

[solderdude]

Without having seen this specific video, this youtuber have 100% clickbait videos, and 100% of the videos I have seen from him so far are imprecise at best, and plain wrong and misinformation at worst. What his agenda is, I don't know.

Isn't not watching the video and still forming an opinion a simple case of 'expectation bias' on your part ?

 

[sigbergaudio]

Isn't not watching the video and still forming an opinion a simple case of 'expectation bias' on your part ?

Not really, I haven't commented this video at all. I am sharing an observation about other videos from this Youtuber.

EDIT: But I will admit that what I have found by watching other videos from this guy makes me less likely to spend time watching this video. Is that expectation bias, or just making sound choices based on experience? I don't know.

 

[solderdude]

Still ... would be best to watch the video and then comment on it.

Click-bait .... sure but the actual info in the video is not misleading .. there were some things that could have been added but the gist of the video was about overpriced DAC devices.

 

[Rednaxela]

What doesn't help is that the thread title/start is in fact even more clickbaity than the video it introduces.

Eventually nobody but the OP wonders if all DACs are a scam.