Are active speakers the future? (YouTube series)

[sigbergaudio]

Ukiro Music is a new Youtube channel / Youtuber from Sweden, and I don't know exactly what he does that works, but I really like his dry delivery and no-nonsense style. His reviews are subjective in nature, but he also presents factual information in a very good way. I also think the way he describes music and listening impressions work well.

He has just reviewed our Sigberg Audio Saranna speakers in his "Are Active Speakers The Future?" series, and as such I'm obviously not objective in thinking this is interesting. But I thought it was worth to share here since this is part 3 in the series. The first two were Kii Three and Dutch&Dutch 8C which are both popular here on ASR, and part 4 (coming in about a month) is the Grimm Audio LS1 with subs.

Which mean you'll get four (relatively speaking) expensive active speakers that many may find comparable, reviewed in the same style and by the same reviewer. Something I assume will be interesting to many here. He isn't really comparing them but rather sharing his impressions of each individually to perhaps help you understand what may be the right choice for you.

For those who feel subjective reviews have no relevance or value whatsoever, you are of course free to ignore these videos.

Kii Three Review (~40 minutes):

Dutch&Dutch 8C Review (~22 minutes):

Sigberg Audio Saranna Review (~40 minutes):

 

[sigbergaudio]

Grimm review also released in this series:

 

[MattHooper]

Beat me to it!

I’ve been following his reviews and I was just about to post the grimm review in the grimm thread.

I find this guy’s reviews to be terrific because as you say not only does he do a great job of presenting some technical ideas in general product description, he’s a very perceptive, listener and fantastic at describing “ what it’s like” to live with a product and “ what it sounds like”… the subjective impressions.
Which is what I want to hear.

Since I’m familiar with at least one of the loudspeakers he has reviewed I found his descriptions to be extremely perceptive and he put into words when I perceived as well.
That kind of thing makes me take notice of a reviewer.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

Waded through a bunch of the 8c video only to find that he's a DAC voodoo magic believer and vinyl fetishist, shrug. Otherwise the video was unexceptionable and workmanlike I guess.

 

[SHB]

To the question, Yes.

 

[Chrispy]

Waded through a bunch of the 8c video only to find that he's a DAC voodoo magic believer and vinyl fetishist, shrug. Otherwise the video was unexceptionable and workmanlike I guess.

Good to know.

 

[MattHooper]

To the question, Yes.

Not for me personally. But then again, I guess I’m a bit of a troglodyte around here.


I was just reminded again why I’m not interested in active speakers. I hooked up my speakers to solid state amplification and really enjoyed the presentation for quite a while. But as soon as my tube amplification went back in it was “aaahhh” now that’s more like it. Just sounded more natural and real to my ears. I just wouldn’t want to give up my old school tube amps for whatever solid state amplification would be packed into the active speakers.

Again, of course I’m in a minority,

Though I know some people around here are also not fully enthusiastic about active speakers for a variety of reasons.

Not putting active speakers down at all. I think they are a nice step forward, for those seeking what they can provide. The technical performance of the Grimm speakers blows me away in terms of the measurements I’ve seen. And I would love to hear them.

 

[Chrispy]

Not for me personally. But then again, I guess I’m a bit of a troglodyte around here.


I was just reminded again why I’m not interested in active speakers. I hooked up my speakers to solid state amplification and really enjoyed the presentation for quite a while. But as soon as my tube amplification went back in it was “aaahhh” now that’s more like it. Just sounded more natural and real to my ears. I just wouldn’t want to give up my old school tube amps for whatever solid state amplification would be packed into the active speakers.

Again, of course I’m in a minority,

Though I know some people around here are also not fully enthusiastic about active speakers for a variety of reasons.

Not putting active speakers down at all. I think they are a nice step forward, for those seeking what they can provide. The technical performance of the Grimm speakers blows me away in terms of the measurements I’ve seen. And I would love to hear them.

Maybe you just need active tube driven speakers

 

[MattHooper]

Maybe you just need active tube driven speakers

While not precisely the same, I once visited an audiophile who had tri-amplified his three-way floor standing speakers - one tube mono block per driver, total of six tube mono blocks glowing and heating away as we listened to music.

It got so hot in the room I almost puked.

 

[kharan]

Not for me personally. But then again, I guess I’m a bit of a troglodyte around here.


I was just reminded again why I’m not interested in active speakers. I hooked up my speakers to solid state amplification and really enjoyed the presentation for quite a while. But as soon as my tube amplification went back in it was “aaahhh” now that’s more like it. Just sounded more natural and real to my ears. I just wouldn’t want to give up my old school tube amps for whatever solid state amplification would be packed into the active speakers.

Again, of course I’m in a minority,

Though I know some people around here are also not fully enthusiastic about active speakers for a variety of reasons.

Not putting active speakers down at all. I think they are a nice step forward, for those seeking what they can provide. The technical performance of the Grimm speakers blows me away in terms of the measurements I’ve seen. And I would love to hear them.

Tube preamps do exist.

 

[Chrispy]

While not precisely the same, I once visited an audiophile who had tri-amplified his three-way floor standing speakers - one tube mono block per driver, total of six tube mono blocks glowing and heating away as we listened to music.

It got so hot in the room I almost puked.

Can't imagine using tubes again ever myself.

 

[DVDdoug]

Without watching the video...

Active speakers have some potential performance advantages. (But they probably won't last forever like my antique passive speakers,)

I see a couple of issues:

Tradition - Stereo and home theater speakers are passive. (Except for the sub.) If you go into an audio/video store, that's what you'll find (mostly). It's a chicken-and-egg thing. Receivers and AVRs have amplifiers (and sometimes pre-amp outputs) and to be economical the amplifiers would have to be left-out. Ane the way marketing works, the first receivers/AVRs without amplifiers would probably cost more than an average one, at least at first before the mass-market adapts.

AC Power - Running speaker wires for 5 or more home theaters can already be difficult and plugging them into power would usually get "messy":

 

[sigbergaudio]

Waded through a bunch of the 8c video only to find that he's a DAC voodoo magic believer and vinyl fetishist, shrug. Otherwise the video was unexceptionable and workmanlike I guess.

What is wrong with enjoying vinyl, exactly? Personally I think his videos are very good, but I understand that his quite dry style doesn't sit well with everyone.

 

[Digital_Thor]

What is wrong by enjoying vinyl, exactly? Personally I think his videos are very good, but I understand that his quite dry style doesn't sit well with everyone.

Exactly, good point. I actually don't really care any more what type of source I listen to, as long as the overall quality of the system is good - because then the overall experience is good too.
One of my best experiences at an exhibition, was a small very (relative) inexpensive system in Hamburg.
It was a very simple system with a small turntable, simple pre-amp and two open baffle speakers with some little waveguided tweeter - maybe a horn(can't remember) - and some 15" woofer. What they did better than almost any other room, was to use a third speaker in the rear of the little room(behind some plants - disconnect the tweeter and add a simple little amplifier - think it was this one - Dayton Audio DTA-100LF.
With this, they made the simplest most straightforward room-anti-mode setup, by just having a third woofer smoothing out the room-boom.
It played soooo much better than the other rooms, by just removing that one little - yet quite big annoyance - from the sound.
So did I care about the specifics of that system - naaah. Because they fixed what no-one else did - even though everyone else might have had technically better solution and results with so much else - but not the bass - these guys nailed it... and that's why I remember them.... even though they played with vinyl

 

[MattHooper]

Tube preamps do exist.

Yup, I own one.

But having tried tube preamplifiers with solid state power amplification, I find it most of the “tube sound” that I like tends to come from tube power amps.

What is wrong with enjoying vinyl, exactly?

Indeed. Not sure why the disparaging term
“ fetishist” needs to be attached to someone who enjoys vinyl records (and even somebody who enjoys listening to vinyl records more than to digital sources).

 

[RexrothPigeon]

What is wrong with enjoying vinyl, exactly? Personally I think his videos are very good, but I understand that his quite dry style doesn't sit well with everyone.

Nothing is wrong with enjoying vinyl--I do too! The video dude made an argument for vinyl superiority, though, which is not the same thing as enjoying vinyl.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Nothing is wrong with enjoying vinyl--I do too! The video dude made an argument for vinyl superiority, though, which is not the same thing as enjoying vinyl.

Not sure he did that exactly, he mentioned that he found that he enjoyed it more, and a bit later he said that while he found vinyl to sound slightly better through his passive Focal rig than through the D&D, he didn't know if this was due to the AD/DA conversion or simply because the speakers sounded different.

If he is open to sending his vinyl rig through an AD/DA conversion in an active speaker and isn't convinced that is a problem, he doesn't sound very religious to me. What he directly or indirectly admits is that he enjoys the coloring of his RIAA setup, which I think is a fair statement.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

Not sure he did that exactly, he mentioned that he found that he enjoyed it more

Okay, since my comment was on Wednesday and today is Sunday, I went back to the transcript to refresh my memory. If this isn't an argument for vinyl superiority, I honestly don't know what is. This quote is verbatim from the transcript:

Many, including myself,
32:47
often find that vinyl can convey color and nuance in a way that penetrates the soul more reliably
32:54
than digital.

Others may disagree, but fantasizing about having one's soul penetrated by a music format qualifies as fetishism to this pigeon

 

[sigbergaudio]

Okay, since my comment was on Wednesday and today is Sunday, I went back to the transcript to refresh my memory. If this isn't an argument for vinyl superiority, I honestly don't know what is. This quote is verbatim from the transcript:


Others may disagree, but fantasizing about having one's soul penetrated by a music format qualifies as fetishism to this pigeon

I don't want to nitpick this to death, but he uses flowery language here to say the same as many say about vinyl, that it is more organic and/or natural sounding. And again to be precise, he claims that many including himself finds it to be so, he doesn't directly claim it is so.

If you move on a bit in the transcript, he seems to imply that this isn't necessarily ruined by an AD/DA conversion - which means he indirectly admits that what he enjoys about vinyl is some kind of coloration, not something that cannot survive the digital domain.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

I don't want to nitpick this to death, but he uses flowery language here to say the same as many say about vinyl, that it is more organic and/or natural sounding. And again to be precise, he claims that many including himself finds it to be so, he doesn't directly claim it is so.

No, he doesn't say that. He says "vinyl can" "[penetrate] the soul".

You do make a good point, though: If you change his words into other words they may sound less fetishistic.

I got the impression that the man is very articulate and chooses his words with intention, so I'll take him at his own words rather than attempting an English-to-English translation.